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Computer Science Education

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Re: Computer Science Education

#111

Post by wolfgke »

hdctambien wrote: post #108
wolfgke wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins. Clearly not my sense of justice. > In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. Everybody can use the internet to learn coding. But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exc…

> So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy. > But at least to me it seems that mostly boys (with few exceptions) seem to love doing this - in particular from young age on Maybe you should try talking to more girls and asking them what they are interested in.

> > So you tolerate that a complete sex shall be punished for former sins

> This is not a zero-sum game. Creating a new opportunity for girls does not remove an existing opportunity for a boy.

Not when quotas are involved. In Germany, where I live, every few years serious attempts to introduce women quota for companies are attempted to pass as a law (which typically are only prevented in the last moment because of massive protests of business associations).

Re: Computer Science Education

#112

Post by RUG3Y »

pliptvo wrote: post #101
camus2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discrimination. So it's a problem in CS but not in education or healthcare, where women are the majority?

In what part of healthcare are men systemically impeded from involvement?

I don't think it can be demonstrated that women are systematically impeded from involvement in STEM fields and CS when there are many programs actively targeting women and girls. A skilled woman in CS appears to have a huge advantage in hiring, at least in any company I've been in.

Re: Computer Science Education

#113

Post by NotSammyHagar »

defnfoo wrote: post #106

Meanwhile, google discriminates against older people ("old" being pretty much anyone in their late 30s). They are so inclusive, and so diverse... as long as they get to decide what diversity and inclusivity are. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-loses-ruling-in-age-bi...

I was past 40 when I was hired at Google, worked there for almost 10 years, knew many other older devs. I disagree that they were discriminatory. At least in my experience, that was not an issue.

Re: Computer Science Education

#114

Post by [deleted] »

pliptvo wrote: post #110
camus2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what part of healthcare are men systemically impeded from involvement? In what part of CS women are systematically impeded from involvement?

Great that you're interested in finding out. http://www.npr.org/tags/221437017/women-in-tech http://overit.com/blog/sexism-in-tech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism_in_the_technology_indus... http://www.businessinsider.com/why-im-finished-defending-sex... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-are-getting-fed-up-with-se... http://www.dailydot.com/via/subtle-sexism-tech-silicon-valle... Or just search "sexism in tech".…

[deleted]

Re: Computer Science Education

#115

Post by RUG3Y »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #78
titraprutr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees And here is the problem - diversity has become a goal rather than a natural consequence of everyone having equal chances. It's not the lack of diversity that those companies should focus on - much more important is an elimination of any kind of discrimination based on gender/race/religion etc.

> And here is the problem - diversity has become a goal rather than a natural consequence of everyone having equal chances. And here is the problem - people think diversity is a goal per se, while it is actually a competitive advantage.

It's a wrong assumption that diversity of demographics is the same as diversity of thought. It's also wrong to assume that a lack of diversity in demographics automatically equates to a lack of diversity in thought.

A competitive advantage would be gained through diversity of thought. Making gender, skin color or any other superficial characteristic into a numbers game in order to look diverse is in no way a competitive advantage.

Re: Computer Science Education

#116

Post by 0xFFC »

hackermailman wrote: post #82
0xFFC wrote: post #3

I don't want to be negative here, But I think anyone who can convince Berkeley guys to re-activate this[1] channel would make humanity much much more service. I am saying this because this channel changed my life, literally. I do live in third world country, I went to local college, where you will learn nothing after 4 year (not even writing a simple hello world, TBH). But after watching and learning from this channe…

There's also this list of MOOCs https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/4rimxf/he... What I do is find a university and look at their course public page where often in the calendar/schedule you can find lecture notes, slides and sometimes the lectures. If you find the lectures immediately grab them with some browser plugin to archive because they tend to disappear. TU/e in NL has a lot of open english taug…

Wow, you are fucking awesome. I dont know how to thank you.

I do the same. I downloaded your link and will look at TU more carefully from now on.

P.S. It is always this way, every time I find a new lectures, I get way too excited.

Re: Computer Science Education

#117

Post by mcguire »

titraprutr wrote: post #46
hdctambien wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why ... are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees. They want to hire more women. In order to hire more women, there needs to be more qualified women applying for jobs. In order for there to be more qualified women applying for jobs, there needs to be more qualified women. In order for there to be more qualified women we…

> Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees And here is the problem - diversity has become a goal rather than a natural consequence of everyone having equal chances. It's not the lack of diversity that those companies should focus on - much more important is an elimination of any kind of discrimination based on gender/race/religion etc.

You cannot stop an object in motion without applying a force in the direction opposite the motion. And you cannot eliminate a large scale social trend by declaring it over.

Re: Computer Science Education

#118

Post by defnfoo »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #113
defnfoo wrote: post #106

Meanwhile, google discriminates against older people ("old" being pretty much anyone in their late 30s). They are so inclusive, and so diverse... as long as they get to decide what diversity and inclusivity are. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-loses-ruling-in-age-bi...

I was past 40 when I was hired at Google, worked there for almost 10 years, knew many other older devs. I disagree that they were discriminatory. At least in my experience, that was not an issue.

The experience of those filing the law suit differs from yours. You may have known some older devs, but the numbers are very clear: the average age of a google employee is 29. The US national average is 42.

Google itself is not very diverse by most metrics. Maybe they should practice what they preach?

http://time.com/4391031/google-diversity-statistics-2016/

Re: Computer Science Education

#119

Post by hrodriguez »

m0nty wrote: post #24
Spare_account wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the linked page there is a section titled "Learn Computer Science" which contains a section titled "Student Learning" which contains a variety of learning resources that can be experienced through the browser. https://www.google.com/edu/cs/learn/student.html

Looks great if you're Indian, Irish or female. Edit: Or AU/NZ, missed that one.

I too was very surprised by the limited options. I keep seeing American companies investing overseas instead of building a stronger base at home. It's frustrating.

Now, don't get me wrong. I understand these are international firms and it's good to see CS education targeting other communities and certain imbalances in the system but...

Their are large swaths of communities right here in the US that could use the support of American companies investing right here in their home-base. As a result, I see these efforts by US firms as a marketing gimmick to help them further their interests in entering new markets and appealing to certain political alliances.

Re: Computer Science Education

#120

Post by mcguire »

reitanqild wrote: post #85
pliptvo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem: There's a massive gender imbalance in CS and amongst the coding community. There are loads of men and hardly any women. Most of half the population would never consider working for us or our partners. Solution: Make a website which specifically encourages young girls to see themselves as coders. Problem: We have invested loads of money into our Irish, Indian, Australian/NZ offices, but we could increase our…

No problem for you. And I have learned to live with it but as a young boy it was extremely frustrating to see girls getting advantages throughout the whole school system just for being girls. Now I am fully aware that I have certain advantages ("privileges") as well but as I said: when you are young this can be extremely frustrating.

It's frustrating because you don't have all of the advantages, or just the advantage that you really want?
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