How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations • Hacker News Board

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#241

Post by rimantas » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:40 AM UTC

renlo wrote: post #222

clarkmoody wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corporations seek to remove all of our abilities to take care of ourselves and our communities Please. It's in a corporation's best interest to give the customer exactly what he wants . We still have "our abilities to take care of ourselves and our communities," but we also have the option of a corporation providing for our every whim.

It's in the corporation's best interest to ensure a steady income flow. That's about it. Corporations only care about 'what the customer wants' insofar as how much it affects a steady income flow. I think you have misinterpreted what the parent comment was saying. He wasn't saying there are limited options, just that we choose to have corporations take care of things for us, and now that we have chosen this we are mo…

No, he sounds like evil coroporations force us to meet friends in coffeshops, etc. When in reality we just don't want to tidy up our houses before inviting friends over, do the dishes, etc. And it also gives us an opportunity to leave the house :)

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#242

Post by rimantas » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:42 AM UTC

JammyDodger wrote: post #223

clarkmoody wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corporations seek to remove all of our abilities to take care of ourselves and our communities Please. It's in a corporation's best interest to give the customer exactly what he wants . We still have "our abilities to take care of ourselves and our communities," but we also have the option of a corporation providing for our every whim.

Then why do corporations spend billions of dollars each year on advertising? Surely it's to convince you to buy something that may not be exactly what you want. A corporation's main goal is to drive up profits and if it's more convenient for them to manipulate a populace into acting a certain way than it is to give the populace exactly what they want then that's what they'll do. There is probably not a conspiracy fro…

It is to convince that you want this particular product by this particular company over the competition.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#243

Post by baddox » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:44 AM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #114

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #10

I have a 4 year old, in my mid 40s, and think about this a lot for some reason. In the 70s during the summer, when I was around 7, we would wake up, eat breakfast, go out and about wherever we wanted, come back for lunch, out again, come back for dinner, and then out again past dark to play flashlight tag. I think I would be charged with child endangerment these days if my kid (3 years in the future) was doing stuff…

Media is part of it, but the other part is this, taken from the first comment on the linked article: "I can’t help but notice how many freeways and roads are between Sheffield and Rother Valley. We can’t blame parents alone for the loss of childhood freedom. Since 1919 We have purposely designed our cities to maximize vehicle throughput and require car ownership and the result is an environment that is lethal for 8 y…

I'm curious if that's a sufficient explanation. Do all the parents today (who remember roaming as kids but who wouldn't let their own kids roam now) live somewhere with more dangerous roads than where they grew up? I wonder if my own home town, which I know has not had significant road changes, has experienced the same alleged decline in roaming.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#244

Post by wallace_f » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:44 AM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #182

wallace_f wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder rate has decreased since the 60s, 70s and 80s, but that does not invalidate my thesis. Also, interpreting the data is only wrong if the data does not support it. I did say that it was higher in some parts It is true though that during many years of comparable peace and without economic hardship the rate in the USA had gone down to below what it is today. For example, estimated at 1/100,000 in year 1800.

OK. Trying to restate your premise: 1) There are cities in the US that currently have intentional murder rates higher than aggregate medieval European ones. 2) There are points in history where the aggregate murder rate is better than the current one. If I understand those 2 correctly, I'm no longer arguing that the data doesn't agree with that. That was a misunderstanding on my part about what you were suggesting. N…

>If I understand those 2 correctly, I'm no longer arguing that the data doesn't agree with that.

I think we're close to being on the same page. About your objection, my argument actually does not really revolve around the idea that there is some correlation b/w city vs state rates.

I'm just looking at the statistics themselves. The fact is there are several cities in the USA that have higher murder rates than any country in Africa or the Middle East. So if you were randomly placed somewhere at random b/w several US cities and vs Africa or the Middle East, you would live in an area with less murders choosing a place at random in Africa or the Middle East.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#245

Post by developer2 » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:45 AM UTC

rconti wrote: post #36

m_mueller wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Swiss with a small child, this is the main reason why I couldn't move to the US or UK. Your 70ies examples are still common enough in Switzerland. 6 year olds are sent to Kindergarden on their own (after a bit of training with their parents). Put the visibility triangle on and off you go. Parents are discouraged by the school authorities to bring by car. Today looking back at this I can see the value. Maybe it h…

I think you're right. Kids being randomly abducted is vanishingly rare, but the faster and further news spreads, the more 'real' it seems. A smaller country would be less likely to see it as a problem that "happens here". I was born in 1981 and from the age of 7 or 8 I remember walking to school (1.5mi and parts of it along a busy street). My friends and I would play in the drainage culvert under the road, walking ba…

>> Kids being randomly abducted is vanishingly rare, but the faster and further news spreads, the more 'real' it seems

The problem is that a single abduction is touted by the media as though 1,000,000 children were taken. It's the exact same propaganda as terrorism - one attack by a foreigner that kills 10 people is treated as though the entire nation of 319 million people were wiped out. When the police and child services can now pick your child off the street and put them into a foster home because they were "not under the supervision of a parent at all times", you have no chance. The U.S. has given away their freedom, simple as that.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#246

Post by baddox » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:45 AM UTC

couchand wrote: post #234

hueving wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isnt it. The town I grew up in had precisely the same number of interstates and major roads as it did 30 years ago (flat population) and children today have nowhere near the freedom that I did as a child.

Can you provide some details? I'm amazed by the idea that there's still a place like this. I'm guessing it's a relatively small town pretty far from any major urban centers?

I'm curious why you're amazed at this notion. Surely the vast majority of towns have not been significantly urbanized or had significant road changes in the last thirty years.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#247

Post by mverwijs » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:49 AM UTC

kqr wrote: post #227

JammyDodger wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do corporations spend billions of dollars each year on advertising? Surely it's to convince you to buy something that may not be exactly what you want. A corporation's main goal is to drive up profits and if it's more convenient for them to manipulate a populace into acting a certain way than it is to give the populace exactly what they want then that's what they'll do. There is probably not a conspiracy fro…

Advertising is 99% about making you aware that theproduct exists and fulfills the needs you already have, and at most 1% about making you want theproduct.

[Citation needed]

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#248

Post by baddox » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:53 AM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #191

robbrown451 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My proposed alternative is good video games with open exploration" I don't even know what to say to that. Seriously?

I never really liked outside much as a kid and found those kinds of games a lot more fun and "adventurous" than outside. To recall my exact feelings at the time, in Spyro I was working towards goals and finding cool stuff like fairies and treasure, while trees and rocks outside were just "there." Nowadays I can appreciate nature just fine (lately I watched a particular great blue heron occasionally throughout a semes…

There's a big difference between letting a kid play in the way they want to play (with limits, of course), and forcing or strongly encouraging playing video games instead of playing outside.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#249

Post by shard972 » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:56 AM UTC

imron wrote: post #35

stuckagain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From or to where?

Parent was missing a /s

whoops yea i should add one for HN. I wish I could say something intelligible, but it's so complicated I don't even know what's going on anymore with western culture.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#250

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 6:57 AM UTC

m_mueller wrote: post #132

Reason077 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Swiss with a small child, this is the main reason why I couldn't move to the US or UK. There always seems to be plenty of children, of various ages, running around my London neighbourhood unsupervised. The noisy little blighters!

That's good to hear. Some of the things I hear from the UK sound at least as authoritarian as the US, so I thought that CPS has similarly harsh measures - apparently it's not that big of an issue?

Working class and upper class children seem to have this freedom in London, having lived in both to press of area.

When I lived in Richmond there were often children alone on the bus or train with expensive belongings like musical instruments or sports equipment. My middle class parents would never have allowed that - but they would expect me to get to school on public transport alone.

Also, there are no rules or laws against this. It's cultural. See http://www.btp.police.uk/advice_and_information/travelling_s... for one example - there's no minimum age to travel alone on a train.