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Fake News Challenge

fakenewschallenge.org

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Re: Fake News Challenge

#151

Post by kmicklas »

general_ai wrote: post #141
JacobJans wrote: post #113

You'll notice so many posts here that deny the existence of fake news, or attempt to redefine it as "bias." Frankly, I find it disturbing that so many well educated people aren't able to objectively think about an actually objective problem. The fake news that started the concept of "fake news" is not a subjective problem. The problem is literal invention of facts not even related to reality, combined with the mass d…

Millions of people have branded Trump as a "homophobe", where in reality he's the most pro-gay president of all time at the start of his term. Not just republican, any US president, period. Obama was against gay marriage before he was (reluctantly) for it. Trump sees no problem with it. Same with xenophobia: a xenophobe doesn't marry an immigrant. Same with misogyny: a misogynist does not appoint a woman to run his c…

This is the kind of satire that will dupe any attempts at AI classification.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#152

Post by untog »

dalbasal wrote: post #144
padseeker wrote: post #53

The problem is not "fake news". The problem is people are treating the news like a product in the capitalist paradigm. If you don't like the way your local bakery makes their bread you go somewhere else. Now if the media reports on something you don't like someone else will tell you what you want to hear. This issue happens on both sides of the political spectrum BUT it does seem to be a lot worse on the conservative…

I don't know if I'd class that as a capitalism-paradigm problem. If the press is free, choices exist and you can find news that tells you what you want to hear. I think if we compare today's new to a decade ago's, the change is not more capitalism (ie, for-profit, corporate, quarterly-report focused...). The change is more choice, more information, more volume and the chaotic, many-to-many distribution systems of the…

> Lets not jump to conclusions. We need to be right about it.

Is a great justification for doing nothing, ever.

It feels like we are entering a very much unprecedented era in America, where the President freezes out news organisations that do not report on him favorably, and is actively attacking the media with the aim of establishing the official government narrative as the only one voters should listen to.

This is extremely dangerous. I'm not saying that we should rush to judgement, but we shouldn't just sit back and wait to see how it all unfolds either. This is an issue to be investigated and worked on, urgently.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#153

Post by zzzcpan »

RandyRanderson wrote: post #142
padseeker wrote: post #53

The problem is not "fake news". The problem is people are treating the news like a product in the capitalist paradigm. If you don't like the way your local bakery makes their bread you go somewhere else. Now if the media reports on something you don't like someone else will tell you what you want to hear. This issue happens on both sides of the political spectrum BUT it does seem to be a lot worse on the conservative…

Noam called it manufacturing consent and it's been a thing for quite a while[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Interesting that his propaganda model [1] actually breaks a bit with the age of internet. Social media, news aggregators, small independent bloggers and small independent news outlets don't have the described biases. Algorithmic filters are somehow unbiased. Independent person/outlet can question the government, capitalism, doesn't have to trust government's spokesmen, doesn't have to publish them, doesn't even have to make money. In a way all those "news bubbles" and "fake news" are actually anti-bubbles and make "democracy" more "democratic".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

Re: Fake News Challenge

#154

Post by garanduss »

wybiral wrote: post #135
garanduss wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that "election hacking" is an intentionally misleading phrase. A Pew poll found that, after this media circus, half of Hillary voters believed that Russia had tampered with vote tallies. The NYT and WaPo (among others) are incredibly biased, and much of the problem is that their support base is too sheltered to understand how. I've said more on this in previous comments.

I found the Pew poll regarding Russian involvement in the email hack but not one involving direct hacking of tallies. Do you have a link? I followed the election from a variety of sources (WaPo and NYT included) and never got that impression. But I agree that it was a circus from all angles.

It looks like it was from The Economist and YouGov - I falsely remembered it being Pew. Here's a WaPo article with a summary and a link to the raw data:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/am...

Re: Fake News Challenge

#155

Post by wu-ikkyu »

zeteo wrote: post #4

>It should be possible to build a prototype post-facto “truth labeling” system [...] Such a system would tentatively label a claim or story as true/false based on the stances taken by various news organizations on the topic, weighted by their credibility. And of course nobody would love this technology more than the Chinese and Russian governments. Is a system aimed at quickly identifying obscure blogs that disagree…

>All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.

Friederich Nietzsche

Re: Fake News Challenge

#156

Post by jquery »

kmicklas wrote: post #151
general_ai wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of people have branded Trump as a "homophobe", where in reality he's the most pro-gay president of all time at the start of his term. Not just republican, any US president, period. Obama was against gay marriage before he was (reluctantly) for it. Trump sees no problem with it. Same with xenophobia: a xenophobe doesn't marry an immigrant. Same with misogyny: a misogynist does not appoint a woman to run his c…

This is the kind of satire that will dupe any attempts at AI classification.

That's a funny put-down, but inappropriate and stifles real debate. I think there is a lot of evidence Trump is not many of things people claim him to be. And there's evidence for the alternative. It depends on the evidence you find more believable.

Here's an excellent article making a compelling argument that Trump is not a racist/homophobe/etc, or at least that calling him such things prematurely undermines the whole argument if he actually does terrible things. Once you call someone racist, it's hard to call them something worse and people tune out.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo...

Re: Fake News Challenge

#157

Post by d0mine »

enraged_camel wrote: post #131
enknamel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing for or against the executive order. It's just a very recent and big example of news organizations shaping how the population thinks. Every news organization is spinning this to fit their narrative.

There is no spin as far as I can tell. I read New York Times, Washington Post, The Atlantic, Slate and Salon. They are simply reporting the facts, along with how the EO is affecting travelers.

How do you think a propaganda looks like for people who believe in it?

Re: Fake News Challenge

#158

Post by KanyeBest »

vvggff wrote: post #42
zeteo wrote: post #4

>It should be possible to build a prototype post-facto “truth labeling” system [...] Such a system would tentatively label a claim or story as true/false based on the stances taken by various news organizations on the topic, weighted by their credibility. And of course nobody would love this technology more than the Chinese and Russian governments. Is a system aimed at quickly identifying obscure blogs that disagree…

Why China and Russia specifically?

Because credible™ news sources such as CNN have confirmed that they are villain states.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#159

Post by 1_2__3 »

general_ai wrote: post #141
JacobJans wrote: post #113

You'll notice so many posts here that deny the existence of fake news, or attempt to redefine it as "bias." Frankly, I find it disturbing that so many well educated people aren't able to objectively think about an actually objective problem. The fake news that started the concept of "fake news" is not a subjective problem. The problem is literal invention of facts not even related to reality, combined with the mass d…

Millions of people have branded Trump as a "homophobe", where in reality he's the most pro-gay president of all time at the start of his term. Not just republican, any US president, period. Obama was against gay marriage before he was (reluctantly) for it. Trump sees no problem with it. Same with xenophobia: a xenophobe doesn't marry an immigrant. Same with misogyny: a misogynist does not appoint a woman to run his c…

You don't really understand how racism, misogyny, etc. works.

It's prejudice against a class, and it's extraordinarily common for otherwise small-minded people to befriend or get close to (and defend!) individual members of that class. That does not actually make them less racist, misogynistic, homophobic, etc. It just makes them a hypocrite.

"I can't be racist I have a black friend" is basically what you're saying, writ large.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#160

Post by imron »

padseeker wrote: post #53

The problem is not "fake news". The problem is people are treating the news like a product in the capitalist paradigm. If you don't like the way your local bakery makes their bread you go somewhere else. Now if the media reports on something you don't like someone else will tell you what you want to hear. This issue happens on both sides of the political spectrum BUT it does seem to be a lot worse on the conservative…

> All I know is the people who seem prone to believing the stupidest stories also believe global warming is a hoax and Obama was not born in this country

Really, because not more than a few weeks ago I remember a whole bunch of people believing the "we can't verify, but we're going to press anyway" stories about Trump and golden showers in Russia, not to mention a whole bunch of other similar fake news regarding Trump and Trump supporters.

I think you (and many others) are selectively applying a bias to what is and isn't fake news and the type of people who believe it based on your own political preferences.

And therein lies the real problem.

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