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Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

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Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#171

Post by bootload »

disordinary wrote: post #138
bootload wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the situation is no way near as bad as it is in the US because of these safety nets for the bottom quartile." I'm not kiwi-bashing, simply pointing out that rich foreign individuals, using NZ as a bolt-hole are faced with similar situation, just in a more dispersed population. "Of all New Zealand children, 22% live in families where the major caregiver receives income from a social security benefit.[0] That is aroun…

In NZ Māori could vote from the first election on. They've always been on equal footing with the white man legally (if not socially), they could vote in NZ more than one hundred years before non white suffrage was finally enforced across the US. And as you said there is a tribunal that redresses historic issues with Iwi. Maori also get special seats in parliament, the Te Reo language and Maori culture is a big part o…

NZ is light years ahead of Aus in this respect.

"The towns that Māori live in are often small towns where there is not a lot of employment, if they live in the cities they are often disenfranchised and have a lack of cultural support."

I hear the same in Australia. Much bigger country, same lack of support.

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#172

Post by malandrew »

1812Overture wrote: post #110
fallingfrog wrote: post #72

How many paid people does it take to maintain these huge compounds?? These people don't seem to understand that all of their wealth and possessions only belong to them because there is a big organized power system that says so, with lawyers and cops with guns and people that are required to obtain cash money every month. 5 seconds after things go south, that helicopter belongs to the pilot, not to you. That land you'…

I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth.

Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft.

The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft.

A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrastructure built, maintained and defended using taxes. Unless the additional revenue benefits everyone, it's hard to increase.

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#173

Post by bootload »

bootload wrote: post #104

“I typically ask people, ‘So you’re worried about the pitchforks. How much money have you donated to your local homeless shelter?’ This connects the most, in my mind, to the realities of the income gap. All the other forms of fear that people bring up are artificial.” I like Max Levchins idea behind this statement. The underlying anxiety shown by a lot of the characters interviewed in this article display a real huma…

read "New Zealand passport row after PayPal's Thiel given citizenship" http://www.france24.com/en/20170126-new-zealand-passport-row... and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13489901

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#174

Post by bootload »

bootload wrote: post #115
bootload wrote: post #104

“I typically ask people, ‘So you’re worried about the pitchforks. How much money have you donated to your local homeless shelter?’ This connects the most, in my mind, to the realities of the income gap. All the other forms of fear that people bring up are artificial.” I like Max Levchins idea behind this statement. The underlying anxiety shown by a lot of the characters interviewed in this article display a real huma…

another example: "Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/23/mark-zuck... Bode well to get on with the local tribe with goodwill instead of using the blunt violence of the (questionable) law.

"“Based on feedback from the local community we are reconsidering the quiet title process and discussing how to move forward,” Zuckerberg said in a statement. Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits “We want to make sure we are following a process that protects the interests of property owners, respects the traditions of native Hawaiians and preserves the environment.”"

3 day reversal ~ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/26/mark-zuck...

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#175

Post by fallingfrog »

malandrew wrote: post #172
1812Overture wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth.

Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft. The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft. A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrast…

Our entire society is constructed to remove wealth from many people and funnel it to a few. If taxation is theft, then what is rent? What about the fact that any business pays its employees less than the value of the work they do? Once you start to redefine "theft" in such a wide way, most of the economic and social activity we engage in on a daily basis becomes "theft".

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#176

Post by mschaef »

sodafountan wrote: post #70
awfgylbcxhrey wrote: post #51

we are skating on really thin cultural ice right now. Nope. Not even close. We survived the Civil Rights movement and Vietnam War protests. For all our online angst and whining, we're not even 1/10th as far toward the tipping point as we were back then.

Not to mention a Civil War, World War II and the Cold War. I think we'll all be alright.

By taking such a sweeping view, you're glossing over a lot of individual suffering. Even if we're better off now than prior to WW2, the >50MM casualties of that war would probably disagree.

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#177

Post by disordinary »

ucaetano wrote: post #162
disordinary wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about NZ is that in a post apocalyptic world people will just get on with things, society won't break down to any great extent. You won't need to be able to set traps or do the economy will collapse but New Zealand is pretty self sufficient when it comes to food and energy. Domesticly sourced oil will be very expensive and obviously high end technology relies on supply chains from China so if the world turn…

Not exactly, almost everything you rely upon has a global supply chain. The tractors used for agriculture are probably not made in NZ, as their components, transformers, electrical materials, basic chemical supplies, etc. Look around you and think where all the aluminium, iron, potash, copper, rubber, basic oils, etc. comes from. All those supply chains will be disrupted, if not eliminated completely. There is barely…

There's the capacity to make whatever mechanical equipment is required domestically as well as more aluminium than the country would require, I think most if not all of the above will be able to be manufactured.

The comment wasn't about being self sufficient and maintaining our current lifestyle, it was about being a piece of civilisation that survived an all out world war.

Re: Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

#178

Post by selimthegrim »

VLM wrote: post #78
dmode wrote: post #46

Having grown up in poverty in a third world country that is extremely chaotic, the doomsday obsession in America is laughable and a little disturbing at the same time. Society doesn't break down like that. Can someone explain why is there such paranoia in the US about societal collapse ? It it video games, movies, media frenzy, hyper partisan politics ? All of it ? I know people who have created bunkers and stock pil…

The topic is example number 258726 of the most photogenic controversial clickbait not really having much to do with the reality of anything. "Society doesn't break down like that." Unfortunately it does, in the USA. See the aftermath of hurricane Katrina for an example of how well we get along when things are temporarily bad. Also the geography of the USA frankly sucks. We're rich and its not because our weather is u…

As someone who actually lives in New Orleans and knows people who were here during Katrina - I feel compelled to interject at this point that the institutions in New Orleans (the police, the Orleans Parish Levee Board) had been rotting long before Katrina. Using the chaos in the aftermath of Katrina is misguided because Katrina was just simply a very heavy straw on a camel with a mostly broken back.
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