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Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

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Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#11
>I think there's a difference between what really motivated him to leak & what he's leaked out of self-preservation

Glenn Greenwald - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688

I always come back to this Tweet when this subject comes up. Like the article suggests, it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when. I would like to think it was after he was stranded in Russia with no hope. That might explain his later actions but I don't think it can ever justify them. If even Greenwald thinks Snowden has "leaked out of self-preservation", I find it hard to support the narrative of a whistleblowing American hero who deserves a pardon.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#12
post #5

The piece in WSJ from 2014 titled "Was Snowden's Heist a Foreign Espionage Operation?" is worth reading ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304831304579542... ). Even though I am sympathetic to Showden for his disclosures of gov't surveillance of American citizens and others, the scope, complexity, and execution of operation leaves many questions unanswered. National security officials (both Republicans an…

>that they believe that Showden operation was an espionage heist

Of course they say that. They have to. They're the ones that authorized (if not authorized, they very well knew about it) all the shit the NSA does. Yet to my knowledge there's no evidence for it. One cannot consciously call themselves American while also calling Snowden a traitor (Scotsman fallacy be damned). The egregious misdeeds he revealed far outweigh any laws he himself broke.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#13
post #5

The piece in WSJ from 2014 titled "Was Snowden's Heist a Foreign Espionage Operation?" is worth reading ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304831304579542... ). Even though I am sympathetic to Showden for his disclosures of gov't surveillance of American citizens and others, the scope, complexity, and execution of operation leaves many questions unanswered. National security officials (both Republicans an…

> "On June 10, 2013, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.), the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, described Mr. Snowden’s theft of documents as “an act of treason.” A former member of President Obama’s cabinet went even further, suggesting to me off the record in March this year that there are only three possible explanations for the Snowden heist: 1) It was a Russian espionage operation; 2) It was a Chinese espionage operation, or 3) It was a joint Sino-Russian operation."

The problem with this is you are taking the word of people who:

A) Genuinely and honestly believe that their domestic surveillance apparatus is legitimate.

B) The bias from A has resulted in a true lack of introspection on any real level that what they are doing with A might be viewed as "wrong" by an American citizen.

Once you realize that and realize almost everyone who is used to support that narrative is from the same pool of pro-Domestic-Surveillance folks, it isn't hard to realize their beliefs are likely an outcome of their biases rather than an observation of objective fact.

The truth is we are not going to know until/unless the FSB ever declassifies their debriefing attempt(s) in regards to Edward Snowden. If the intelligence community truly possessed a smoking gun in regards to Edward Snowden, even if it compromised a valuable source or sources, it would be worth using it to terminate the political threat and scrutiny of their operations. The fact they have not means nothing they have on Snowden is conclusive. In other words, no one in the US (or its allies) really knows if Snowden is a foreign agent (or not).

Ultimately, at this point, the fallout appears to be effectively 0 and there will be an expansion of domestic surveillance powers whenever something 'bad' happens. Regardless of the legitimacy of the tool, the fact they are unable to protect it appropriately means its as dangerous to them as it is to us and they are simply too naive to realize it.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#14

No. Next (ridiculous) question please?

It's not really a ridiculous question.

The popular narrative of Snowden's actions and motivations doesn't add up when you look at all the available evidence.

It's quite reasonable for people to suspiciously probe the mythos built up around him.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#15
post #11

>I think there's a difference between what really motivated him to leak & what he's leaked out of self-preservation Glenn Greenwald - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688 I always come back to this Tweet when this subject comes up. Like the article suggests, it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when . I would like to think it was after he was stranded in Russia with no hope. That mi…

If Snowden basically handed it all over to Russia because the US revoked his passport while he was in a Russian airport, the US is the ultimate cause of the event by their choice of timing.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#16
post #5

The piece in WSJ from 2014 titled "Was Snowden's Heist a Foreign Espionage Operation?" is worth reading ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304831304579542... ). Even though I am sympathetic to Showden for his disclosures of gov't surveillance of American citizens and others, the scope, complexity, and execution of operation leaves many questions unanswered. National security officials (both Republicans an…

Nearly every month we see massive data-breaches from big companies. Are these always Russian and Chinese state-sponsored actors? Snowden had access from the inside, enough technical skill for an unsanctioned penetration test and his own (subjective) moral code. His actual escape was rather sloppy and put a huge target on his back, since it was (in contrast to data exfiltration) way outside his area of expertise. Of course the people responsible to keep the shady things in the shadow want to cover their own ineptitude, therefore point at an omnipotent antagonist pulling all the strings.

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#17
"those who hold darker views about Snowden include lawmakers and officials who “base it on classified reports” and “have been at least partially briefed” about the NSA’s investigation. "

I only skipped the article, but this seems to be the main content and vague rumors around. People who have been caught lying over and over again, are now a trustworthy source for anything?

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#18
post #11

>I think there's a difference between what really motivated him to leak & what he's leaked out of self-preservation Glenn Greenwald - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688 I always come back to this Tweet when this subject comes up. Like the article suggests, it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when . I would like to think it was after he was stranded in Russia with no hope. That mi…

"it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when"

Strong accusation. I suppose you have solid facts behind your claim? Or do you count the tweet as a fact for anything?? Because it is kind of vague ...

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#19
post #11

>I think there's a difference between what really motivated him to leak & what he's leaked out of self-preservation Glenn Greenwald - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688 I always come back to this Tweet when this subject comes up. Like the article suggests, it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when . I would like to think it was after he was stranded in Russia with no hope. That mi…

"it isn't a matter of if Snowden was compromised but when" Strong accusation. I suppose you have solid facts behind your claim? Or do you count the tweet as a fact for anything?? Because it is kind of vague ...

Greenwald knows more about it than either you or I do and I don't see much vagueness in the quote. Who does Snowden need preservation from? The two current options are the US and Russia with the Chinese having temporary influence over him immediately after the leak. The logical conclusion is that some of the information Snowden leaked was done to placate the US, Russia, or China. I think we can rule out the US considering Snowden is still living in exile and there seems to be little to no contact between him and the US government. That leaves China and Russia. Considering the time spent in both those countries, I think Russia is the more likely of the two. Greenwald seems to be implying that Snowden has leaked information in order to gain favor with Russia. Where is the flaw in this conclusion? What else could "leaked out of self-preservation" mean? Who else could he need self-preservation from?

Re: Was Snowden a Russian Agent?

#20
"Was Snowden a Russian Agent?" .. no, he was an outside contractor with a conscience, illustrating the perils of outsourcing your spying. Why an IT functionary would need access to the raw files to do his job just beggers disbelief. After all if you wanted to compromise a security service, what better way than infiltrating some IT services company or even simpler, start one yourself.
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