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Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

joelonsoftware.com

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Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#21
post #15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear. The Notes adoption curve he points to can be explained by other factors -- marketing, bundling, competition (or lack of it), etc.

ok, let's hear your explanation then. Notes was pretty advanced for its day and big companies bought it because it actually did what it was supposed to do.

I think the issue is you're mixing the fact that the company/software was commercially successful with whether or not it was great software.

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#22
post #10

The message that I took away from this article was that good software has to deal with the likely exceptions it will run into in the real world, using real world data. When I built the first version of the Ambient Clock ( http://ambientclock.com ), I groveled through the vagaries of iCal implementations. It was a nightmare. I breathed a sigh of relief when we decided to use GData: a nice, clean API. But what bit me n…

The VisualWorks Smalltalk JIT VM is another example. It has been in development since 1989, and it shows. I can write an infinite loop that does nothing but allocate, slip that into someone's image, start it, and they wouldn't even notice!

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#23
I think the jump from 10-20 million may have had something to do with lotus being bought by IBM, giving it a big marketing push.

Also, if he really wanted to prove his point he could have pointed out that the development could be traced back to the early 70s when Ray Ozzie was working on PLATO

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an interview with an IBM technical guy once who claimed that Lotus Notes was first and foremost a synchronization platform (desktop and server) and email was just kind of built on top of that..

Well synchronization is still a big pain (Exchange server, anyone?) so if that's the problem they solved, then they deserved success.

"The product was very far ahead of its time. It was the first commercial client/server product."

"During this time, the developers at Iris used Lotus Notes to communicate remotely with people at Lotus. Halvorsen said, "Simply using the product every day helped us develop key functionality." For example, the developers needed to synchronize data between the two different locations, so they invented replication. "This wasn't in the original plan, but the problem arose and we solved it," said Halvorsen."

From IBM's "The History of Notes and Domino" http://tinyurl.com/2b8wxk

"Inside Notes provides a single place where you can quickly learn about the architecture of Notes" http://tinyurl.com/ytjkf3 [PDF]

Note: I love how IBM's web site uses the famed Notes Icon as it's little Website icon identifier :)

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well synchronization is still a big pain (Exchange server, anyone?) so if that's the problem they solved, then they deserved success.

"The product was very far ahead of its time. It was the first commercial client/server product." "During this time, the developers at Iris used Lotus Notes to communicate remotely with people at Lotus. Halvorsen said, "Simply using the product every day helped us develop key functionality." For example, the developers needed to synchronize data between the two different locations, so they invented replication. "This…

This is significant:

Simply using the product every day helped us develop key functionality.

The feedback loop of eating your own dog food is one of the greatest benefits a software project can have. Here the programmers weren't only users of the product, they were using it as an essential part of the development work itself. That's like putting steroids into your dog food and then eating it.

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't met someone who doesn't hate it. I certainly have. And it led me to a little theory: that Lotus Notes' value was in enabling non-programmers to build a certain class of apps. If this is correct, then its value was pretty big (think of spreadsheets). It also explains why programmers hate Lotus Notes so much; systems built this way get messy very quickly (again, think of spreadsheets). But to dismiss the valu…

I read an interview with an IBM technical guy once who claimed that Lotus Notes was first and foremost a synchronization platform (desktop and server) and email was just kind of built on top of that..

I use IBM Lotus Domino server software (Notes is the client side piece) as the underlying platform for some healthcare web applications. It would be more accurate to describe Domino as a loosely-structured document database with multi-master replication and a public-key security infrastructure. There is a whole application development layer on top of that, plus additional native features for messaging and workflow. Lotus (and later IBM) then built e-mail, calendar, and groupware applications using those basic building blocks. Those applications ship as part of the product, but you can build your own custom apps that operate on an equal footing. It works extremely well for certain classes of applications.

Usually when someone has a bad opinion of Notes/Domino it's because he used an old version of the e-mail application at some previous company, and it did have a sucky user interface. But the current version is on par with anything else out there.

Re: Good Software Takes Ten Years. Get Used To it.

#29
The only problem I find with the article is the paradigm of programming in Lotus's earlier years... manual memory allocation, static types, ... things have changed in the programming, not to mention in other areas like software as a service and it being free. I don't think this is accurate anymore
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