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CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

developers.google.com

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Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#271

Post by talmand »

Symbiote wrote: post #269
talmand wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the purposes of screen readers, it is suggested to use over . What bugs me is the recent usage of as an icon holder.

See the specification for , a taxonomic designation is the first example of its use. https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/text-level-semantics.html#the-i-...

Well, I should specify I meant that in most cases using is preferred over in terms of the traditional sense of what was used for in the past. These days both have their specific uses, but in most cases one would more likely to use .

For example, further down the page:

"Authors are encouraged to consider whether other elements might be more applicable than the i element, for instance the em element for marking up stress emphasis, or the dfn element to mark up the defining instance of a term."

As an element it used to be the way to italicize text, to emphasize that text, before CSS. These days it has had a semantic reason for its existence applied which is a slight variation of its original purpose under the HTML4 spec.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#272

Post by talmand »

Vinnl wrote: post #270
talmand wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every browser supports @supports. If the browser doesn't know what @supports is, it ignores the entire block.

Actually, if a browser did support grid but not @supports, wrapping your grid in @supports would result in the grid rules not being used.

Well, that is true.

My caveat is that currently @supports is far more heavily supported than grid layout which is not fully available in any current browser. As usual, only IE is the major holdout for @supports and most likely we'll be doing special things for IE until it totally dies out anyway.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#273

Post by lightedman »

talmand wrote: post #263
lightedman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can you suggest a mainstream layout system that offers this feature in a better manner" I've done better looking/performing layouts 20 years ago with plain HTML 3.2. CSS is a mess.

Can you provide an example by chance?

Not since Geocities went under. The torrent backup available from the SoHo section doesn't have my account.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#274

Post by talmand »

lightedman wrote: post #273
talmand wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide an example by chance?

Not since Geocities went under. The torrent backup available from the SoHo section doesn't have my account.

Well, that's a bummer. I was hoping for a good example of nicely built websites with the older technologies. All my examples have disappeared into the ether as well.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#275

Post by betenoire »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #237
usaphp wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember back in the days you had to use rounded corners images and JS hacks to get a result that border-radius does today. Nightmares.

The ironic thing is now instead of having to load 40 images, you're loading 40 different JS libraries to get the job done. I'm still not sure if we're better off yet. . . .

I know what you mean, but just to be clear, 0 libraries are needed for me to write CSS.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#276

Post by HalfwayToDice »

yellowapple wrote: post #202
HalfwayToDice wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 30,000 unique visitors to my website every day. The number who care whether HTML tags are being outside their semantic purity is zero.

Great! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you don't have users with screen readers and don't have any issues with search engines parsing your web page, then you do you.

Screen readers and search engines haven't been confused by tables since last century.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#277

Post by nstr10 »

kalleboo wrote: post #261
diamondlovesyou wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Most of the HTML I write is to create structure for CSS to use. For example, a `div` is a container, but we put it on the content side. What would have been better would be a flat map identifier -> binary (or string or whatever, your choice) as the content, and then "CSS" (quotes because it wouldn't be the CSS we know now) would declare the layout/look and would read the content map for insertion into placeh…

At one point XSLT was created to convert XML documents into presentation markup. Browsers supported it and everything. It never caught on though.

I feel like that's because XSLT introduced so much complexity that mere humans found it impossible to work with. I've searched in vain for a decent XSLT editor to help me; the ones I've tried have themselves been incredibly complex. The idea was good, but the implementation is the stuff of nightmares.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#278

Post by lucker »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #119

I don't know how to say it politely but what has been achieved by using ad-hoc syntax such as this gem (and similar complex CSS syntax): display: grid; grid-template-rows: 150px [nav-start] auto 100px [nav-end]; grid-template-columns: [header-start] minmax(200px, 3fr) 9fr [header-end]; CSS fans for some reason seem to think that its somehow better to have rendering/presentational properties in an ad-hoc language. Ori…

Yep. I think the right approach is to expose the browser's primitives and just have people write their own markup/layout/style languages if they want to. Keep HTML/CSS as a fall-back and because a lot of work has gone into optimizing their performance, but start the long-needed move to opening up mainstream browsers on a lower level. Also, of course, leave JS as a fall-back but introduce a lower-level language. Re-implement HTML/CSS/JS on top of the new exposed primitives in order to expedite moving to the new standards. So you'll be able to use either original, optimized HTML/CSS/JS, or the new HTML/CSS/JS that has been re-implemented on top of the new exposed primitives, or just new stuff built on those primitives.

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#279

Post by bshimmin »

talmand wrote: post #264
bshimmin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad someone else said it. I particularly like that they've introduced a new unit, `fr`, and can't even decide what it stands for. I've been writing CSS since about 1996; for some reason, I feel like it all started to go downhill, fast, with the background gradient syntax.

I've always seen it referred to as "fractional". Have you seen it described as something else?

Well, @fantasai, who should probably know, says "I think we never really decided on that": https://twitter.com/DasSurma/status/815910270023430144

Re: CSS Grid – Table layout is back. Be there and be square

#280

Post by yellowapple »

HalfwayToDice wrote: post #276
yellowapple wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you don't have users with screen readers and don't have any issues with search engines parsing your web page, then you do you.

Screen readers and search engines haven't been confused by tables since last century.

According to other comments to the linked article, the former at the very least ain't universally true.
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