Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers • Hacker News Board

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#21

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #16

colanderman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Think about how these cast iron pans need to work. They have a high thermal mass so once hot will have a nice uniform temperature...but you will have to wait for that to happen. A thinner pan will heat much faster but will be liable to hot spots. I prefer a thinner pan myself[+] but I understand why people like the cast iron. [+] one thing about those pans: the idea of a "seasoned" pan, with old, rancid oil molecules…

[deleted]

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#22

Post by _ea1k » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #13

joezydeco wrote: post #4

How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. How many are in your pocket right now? How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

It is hard to find data, but it sounds like the grill temp could range as high as 425 F.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#23

Post by stronglikedan » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #17

gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

> if you heat it to the point of breaking it down you'll get toxic byproducts the will kill birds (with their hyper efficient gas exchange systems...that we don't have). Strange comment. Those fumes are rather unfriendly to humans, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever

The key word is "kill". While it may cause this fever in humans, it won't kill them. However, it will kill birds, because of "their hyper efficient gas exchange systems...that we don't have". That's my takeaway, at least.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#24

Post by wnevets » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

notadoc wrote: post #8

Let's hear both sides before we rush to any judgement about these so called facts about these so called "chemicals". Maybe some people like fluorinated chemicals? Who needs regulations? Everyone can run their own independent tests in their own privately funded home labs and determine if the chemicals are troubling to them or not.

No, we should let the market decide. If the customers at fast food place x all die from fluorinated chemicals then that company will go out of business!

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#25

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #9

Do we have any estimates on how many actual deaths (or sicknesses) occur due to the use of these chemicals? I care because if we can't positively attribute death or sickness to the use of these chemicals, it seems unfair to tarnish them.

That's too low a bar. A lot of the worst environmental mistakes used that approach and it has gotten less sensible as our knowledge of chemistry and biology has advanced.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#26

Post by joezydeco » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #22

gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

It is hard to find data, but it sounds like the grill temp could range as high as 425 F.

Recipes vary, but many go up to 375F (at least in this McD engineering document)

https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/9dQcRSZ8TMeeM7Y8Lx6w

I want to believe that teflon is indeed totally inert until 500F, but somehow I just don't trust that. It's the low-temp PFOA leakage into the product I'm looking at here, not the fumes released at higher temps.

If the wrappers are doing it at ambient, what's happening at cooking temperatures?

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#27

Post by mikeatlas » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #9

Do we have any estimates on how many actual deaths (or sicknesses) occur due to the use of these chemicals? I care because if we can't positively attribute death or sickness to the use of these chemicals, it seems unfair to tarnish them.

They're certainly worth tarnishing. Knowledge of PFOA and PFAS is not without science and evidence of it's harm already established. Here are two sites where the chemicals have contaminated groundwater and caused illness in communities.

http://healthvermont.gov/response/environmental/pfoa-drinkin...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/13/nyregion/military-base-co...

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#28

Post by dpark » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

_ea1k wrote: post #22

gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

It is hard to find data, but it sounds like the grill temp could range as high as 425 F.

Then it should be fine since teflon doesn't start releasing dangerous fumes until about 575, which McDonalds grills probably don't reach even if you try.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#29

Post by OnACoffeeBreak » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

Neliquat wrote: post #12

colanderman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried cast-iron (mostly for pancakes) but found that it heated very unevenly (to the point of burning food in the center and not cooking food at the edge). I've found success with a multi-clad stainless steel skillet. Heating it to the Leidenfrost point [1] ensures that nothing sticks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect#Leidenfrost...

Disclaimer: I am an avid cast iron user. It seems like cast iron fails on electric cooktops, or in the case of much of the thin modern cast iron cookware. In an effort to keep weight down to compete, they ruined the product. Gas flame mostly solves this, but is increasingly uncommon.

Avid cast iron user here as well... I've been using heavy cast iron skillets and pots on an electric stove for over a decade and enjoying it with no issues.

Could it be an issue with an induction-type electric cooktop? I never tried cast iron on one of those.

Re: Troubling chemicals found in wide range of fast-food wrappers

#30

Post by ScottBurson » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #13

joezydeco wrote: post #4

How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. How many are in your pocket right now? How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that.

> How about thermal printer receipts? Most are coated with BPA. BPA on thermal paper is indeed a worry (and of course most those "BPA-free" bottles use a different bisphenol plasticizer, just not bisphenol-A). > How about the fact that most McDonalds grill their burgers on grills that are covered with disposable teflon sheets? They don't tell the public that. But a teflon sheet? Teflon is so tightly linked that it is…

The breakdown products of Teflon are also toxic to the prostate, as I found out personally once by eating lots of eggs scrambled in a Teflon skillet. I avoid it now.