Live data from Hacker News

Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

nytimes.com

161–170 of 185 posts

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#161
post #158
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds eerily like something a Chinese government propaganda person would say.

Please don't imply another member is a shill or plant or whatnot without solid evidence. It's uncivil and not conducive to constructive discussion. If you're actually concerned that this might be the case, please contact the mods via the Contact link in the footer.

It may be uncivil, but we are really truely living in an age where a significant percentage of communications are forged by paid PR people. We should focus on actually thinking about this problem and dealing with it. I know that whitch hunts are bad, but this member didn't get out a pitch-fork and noose, they only said how they felt.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#162
post #157
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds eerily like something a Chinese government propaganda person would say.

Feel free to look through my comment history and make your own opinion on whether I'm likely to be a Chinese government propaganda person.

You look realish enough. But your brother might be a propoganda person...

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#163

This appears to be an aspect of the anti-corruption drive that has been holding billionaires and politically connected people high up in the Chinese government to account of the law, with Xiao Jianhua caught in financial fraud. The controversy here isn't that China took Xiao Jianhua in to face the law, but that he was taken from Hong Kong, where an agreement with Britain gives its former colony de facto autonomy with…

I have to imagine it's pretty easy for the PRC to have a public (i.e. regular type) arrest and extradition carried out in HK? Makes me wonder if the real purpose the objective here was to keep him from naming names in public/open court?

They probably just want to instill fear. If they are powerfull enough to get away with this, then who would ever oppose them?

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, North Korea has a full-ownership policy too. I hear it's quite efficient.

If you're going to get snarky, then the US has it too... but only for taxation.

As a person who emigrated, I can say that aint a good thing.

Edit: OK, I'm fine with the very wealthy being charged an exit tax but the draconian tax laws seem to effect everyone EXCEPT the very wealthy. Like, if you cannot afford a lawyer to sort your shit out then you'll get fined BIG TIME but if you're a rich person, you don't pay any large percentage.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#165

I wonder, what would the world be like today if the UK had refused to give back Hong Kong? Or, they could have refused to switch recognition from ROC to PRC, and then handed Hong Kong to ROC instead? The US and the UK basically gave the PRC everything they wanted in switching the UN's China seat from ROC to PRC. They could have driven a much harder bargain – e.g. have two Chinas in the UN, just like it has two Koreas…

The Brits' hands were tied. Modern Hong Kong is comprised of three parts, Hong Kong island, Kowloon, and the New Territories. Hong Kong Island and Kowloon were ceded to UK, while the New Territories had only been _leased_ for 99-year (1898 - 1997), which in 1980s accounted for around 90% of the land and 40% of the population of Hong Kong.

If the Brits had obtained permanent rights in the New Territories, the situation would have been different. But they hadn't and by contract had to return Hong Kong to China.

It has been argued, though, that they should have returned Hong Kong to Republic of China.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#166
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't imply another member is a shill or plant or whatnot without solid evidence. It's uncivil and not conducive to constructive discussion. If you're actually concerned that this might be the case, please contact the mods via the Contact link in the footer.

It may be uncivil, but we are really truely living in an age where a significant percentage of communications are forged by paid PR people. We should focus on actually thinking about this problem and dealing with it. I know that whitch hunts are bad, but this member didn't get out a pitch-fork and noose, they only said how they felt.

Indeed, communication is fraught with all manner of difficulties today. We have a lot of things that we may feel, and some, while we may believe are justified, are not constructive to express in certain contexts. Implications like this on HN are one such case.

That doesn't mean there's no recourse. The mods actively respond to concerns like this. As I suggested above, you can contact them and they'll look into it.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#167
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to look through my comment history and make your own opinion on whether I'm likely to be a Chinese government propaganda person.

You look realish enough. But your brother might be a propoganda person...

You will just have to decide whether to take my word that the prospect of him being a propaganda person is laughable. For one thing this comment of his was something that he came to after moving back to the US and establishing a business here. For another, a Chinese propaganda person would be unlikely to criticize the Chinese people in a way that his comment did.

For the record, the extent to which Americans can be trusted to be honest and trustworthy on a daily basis came as a shock to him after living in China for many years.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, North Korea has a full-ownership policy too. I hear it's quite efficient.

If you're going to get snarky, then the US has it too... but only for taxation.

There's a difference between pursuing someone in court to make them pay taxes and kidnapping them to take them to a hostile regime and hold them indefinitely.

China acts as if it owns people of Chinese descent. Such as the Taiwanese. And they're more concerned with collecting them all rather than treating them well.

Hong Kong and Taiwan would flee China if they could. Many countries would run to be a US Protectorate. Totally different scenario. And it's essentially all because of personal freedoms, which start with not being property.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#169
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't imply another member is a shill or plant or whatnot without solid evidence. It's uncivil and not conducive to constructive discussion. If you're actually concerned that this might be the case, please contact the mods via the Contact link in the footer.

It may be uncivil, but we are really truely living in an age where a significant percentage of communications are forged by paid PR people. We should focus on actually thinking about this problem and dealing with it. I know that whitch hunts are bad, but this member didn't get out a pitch-fork and noose, they only said how they felt.

One can still argue with paid PR without resorting to ad hominem and boo lights...

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China needed strong assurances from the US and UK that formally splitting from the Soviet Union wouldn't see the American alliance then turn against China in a divide-and-conquer strategy. Could we have gotten a better deal? I'm not sure. Given the earlier incursion into Vietnam and Korea, the military support of the ROC and the militarization of the First Island Chain, I can't imagine that anything short of the very…

Did the US-China alliance win the Cold War? To what extent did it contribute to the fall of the Soviet Union? I think most of the reasons why the Soviet Empire fell were internal factors rather than external pressures, and the US-China alliance made at best a marginal difference to the outcome. Indeed, what did the US and its allies actually get out of their anti-Soviet alliance with PRC? Nixon hoped that it would he…

Thanks for your informed and interesting comment!

This is an interesting position, though I think it suffers from the same shortcuts that much US thinking does when it tries to grapple with prior arrangements that seem inconvenient today because of changing strategic context.

To what extent did it contribute to the fall of the Soviet Union? An incredible amount. China blocked the Soviet Union in all of South Asia, it abstained from diplomatic support - it wielded both its position on the UNSC and it's nuclear capability to check USSR. Then, it challenged the central tenets of Communism specifying that it had a different interpretation closer to the original theory - thus challenging the centrality of Russia ideologically. China's withdrawl represented approximately a third of the world population removing itself from the union: the concept of "domino theory" at the time described - in a certain pop science way - how states arriving into and dropping out of the union had a chain reaction effect. Since the alliance with China, the Cold War no longer was fought in the Asian theatre - closing down an entire continent of front to the war. The rest of the Cold War would be fought in Central Asia (and eventually in the Middle East), and in Europe.

Of course, the United States knew from very early that it was going to lose in Vietnam: the Pentagon Papers discussed this in great detail. The United States was there on a cost imposition exercise. The result it found in the alliance with China was a mutually satisfactory way to close the conflict. In this regard China didn't win the Vietnam war either.

> The various potential military hotspots – Vietnam, the Korean peninsula, the South China Sea – would probably be in much the same state if the US-China deal never happened.

I have no idea. That's 60 years of alternative history to imagine. Fascinating, but not clear.

> Many people say that Nixon's decision was a great strategic move, but I am unconvinced – the US got some short-term assistance against the Soviets which it didn't really need and didn't make much difference anyway; in exchange, the US put itself in a weaker strategic position vis-à-vis China for many decades to come.

This seems to be a rising opinion in the National Security Core of the United States, and also seems to be the take of the new Trump Administration.

Personally I see this as historical revisionism, contextualized by modern concerns over historical accuracy.

I fully agree that China and it's potential rise are considered by the National Security State of the American Government to be a dark horse scenario, and a greater potential spoiler to American hegemony than Russia (a waning power) today.

I understand how someone could mistake the situation we are in today with a security outlook at China's rise and want to throw out some of the alliance concessions because in this day and age they are inconvenient. We've seen that before in history (indeed, in American history) and so it's congruent with the kind of behavior we would expect.

> China's economic development since the 1980s has provided many economic benefits to the US and its allies. But, that still could have happened even if there was a more assertive US policy towards PRC

I think all of this is very accurate, provided there was _some_ deal to get an alliance. Had it been possible for the United States to do that without recognizing PRC, I serious doubt. But yeah, if that had been possible, I think much of the geoeconomic situation would have looked the same.

Post reply on HN