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AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

bbc.co.uk

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Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#121

Post by xapata »

brilliantcode wrote: post #79
deepnotderp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been there, done that (well kind, of, via several small specialized nets). Actually a pretty good trading strategy, but works better if you actually have capital to use it....

probably not going to get any details out of you but worth trying: can you give any pointers to implement such strategies and the minimum capital involved?

A Google search result for "machine learning stock trading":

https://www.udacity.com/course/machine-learning-for-trading-...

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#124

Post by xapata »

limbicsystem wrote: post #93

Is 6-handed a significantly harder game or is it just (from the computer's point of view) just like playing 5 single games of heads-up?

No, the actions of players are not independent. For example, if 3 are in the hand and the 1st to act bets the 2nd is less likely to call because of the risk of the 3rd raising. Or was the 2nd only calling instead of raising because they expected the 3rd to raise based on recent aggression?!

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#125

Post by aidenn0 »

blueside wrote: post #23
TylerE wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just showing your ignorance. That margin of victory over that many hands isn't luck or coincidence. The pros were absolutely dominated.

I disagree and it's not ignorance on my part. Due to the nature of the poker and heavily weighted component of luck, a terrible AI can theoretically win. I am sure the AI they built is a mighty and spectacular achievement, but poker is about the only game I know where the worst player can easily beat the best player. Prove me wrong and I'll happily accept your insult of "ignorance" edit I should have been more clear,…

Yes it's possible, but it's also possible that a terrible chess AI could get lucky and win by the opponent getting a heart attack in the middle of a game.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#126

Post by [deleted] »

bcassedy wrote: post #70
bko wrote: post #42

Does anyone know the technical details of how to train and AI bot for a game like poker? I imagine it's just reinforcement learning where the inputs are the actions of the individual players (hold/fold/raise, timing etc) and the statistical probabilities in terms of expected cards. Train a neural net to predict probability of the opponent's hands and act accordingly. Is it just that the professionals all act similarl…

I'm sure the actual process differs from research group to research group. Here's how one commercially available AI training system claims to work. http://www.pokersnowie.com/about/technology-training.html And they go into some of the problems that stem from how they've abstracted the game here: http://www.pokersnowie.com/about/weaknesses.html

[deleted]

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#127

Post by xapata »

hnkain wrote: post #100
algorias wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a poker AI that plays deterministic strategies is an obviously terrible idea, for the precise reason you mention. It makes much more sense for the strategy space to be the set of probability distributions over game moves (i.e. mixed strategies). I think that the optimal mixed strategy for each hand is immune to bluffing (over many hands it will have larger expected winnings against a bluffer). If that wasn't t…

It would be surprising to me if a completely deterministic strategy wasn't within some very close margin of an optimal strategy. For example, if you think you should raise with JJ 1/3 of the time and call the rest of the time in some spot, then you can raise JcJd and JhJs and call with the other jacks. This can give your opponent slightly more information about your range in some cases (for example, if they hold a J…

Conversely, I'd be very surprised if any deterministic strategy were remotely good. I've played against people with reasonable tight-aggressive strategies who were a bit too deterministic. They get crushed.

It'd be far too easy to recognize when they have a good hand and fold and to push them off all their marginal hands.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#128

Post by xapata »

throw_away wrote: post #6
MaggieL wrote: post #3

Surely nobody is surprised? Perfect knowledge of probabilities, no emotion and immune to bluffing.

"Capable of bluffing" would perhaps be the surprising thing.

To "bluff" in this case is defined as putting in more money than would be smart if all cards were played face-up. The AI is easily capable of bluffing and in fact should do so frequently.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#129

Post by npongratz »

strictnein wrote: post #67
eliben wrote: post #64

Does the computer-ness of the AI give it advantage in poker w.r.t. counting cards, at which humans are imperfect? Or are humans perfect enough these days?

There's no counting cards in poker. 52 card shuffled deck each time.

It's not "counting cards," but to be minimally successful at certain variants like seven card stud, I'd argue one must[0] remember cards that have been folded in the current hand.

But certainly in all HE variants (that I'm aware of), counting and remembering is unnecessary.

[0] It's necessary, but not sufficient.

Re: AI Beats Four Top Poker Players

#130

Post by deepnotderp »

brilliantcode wrote: post #112
deepnotderp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here's a million dollars a year budget, who do you hire ? If you've read papers and know about deep reinforcement learning , you'll know who to hire.

I hire the guy that read the papers and know who to hire :) In an orchestra, the conductor is not replaceable but the instrument players are. Similarly, someone who allocates his or other's capital cannot be easily replaced very much like the worker's. Your engineer leaves there are 100 others ready to take the place. Business owner leaves you'd have to find a buyer to keep everyone going. This is different from a CE…

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/requirementsengineering-1402...

Guess who's getting replaced once the VC figures out who's doing the work...

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