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Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#21

Post by xtho »

nostrademons wrote: post #3

These jobs exist. Corporate executives are obvious ones. Finance, particularly hedge funds and venture capital. Management consulting. Politicians. Tenured professors. Creative solitary professions like writers, comedians, and composers. The problem is that almost everyone would rather think than do, so you've got a massive supply & demand imbalance. Everybody wants to be the one deciding what should be done; very fe…

> Everybody wants to be the one deciding what should be done; very few people want to be the ones actually doing it.

I'm going to tell that a colleague of mine who wants to quit his current job because everything he does is talking and negotiating (i.e. deciding or rather preparing decisions) without ever getting anything done.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#23

Post by xtho »

nostrademons wrote: post #10
j_baker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that almost everyone would rather think than do. I'd disagree. I think that the majority of people would rather work with something more concrete (doing) than abstract(thinking).

You really think so? I think a lot of people become habituated to doing because that's what they need to do to put food on the table. And most of the time, they won't find anyone willing to listen to their thoughts anyway, so why bother spouting off? But if you really listen to people, I've found that most can think pretty deeply about grand and overarching subjects. And it's people from all walks of life - auto mech…

A "thinking job" usually doesn't mean commenting on this or that without knowing what they're talking about (well, there are people who do that but those are in the top 0.1% of the population). Most "thinking jobs" require you to conduct tedious research, getting engaged in discussions, being flamed in front of an audience etc. And most "thinking jobs" limit your expertise to one tiny bit of reality which means that you spend the rest of your life with thinking about inane details hardly anybody really cares about. (Again there are exceptions because once you get famous you can easily pass as expert for everything.)

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#24

Post by megablast »

Look at your University.

I was involved in Grid Computing research, which didn't involve any development, but meant I had to go around to different Universities and private companies, and help them understand the benefits of getting into Grid Computing. It was mainly dealing with Management and Administrators, getting them to understand the benefits of using all those spare computing cycles, they have on their desks and in their computing labs.

It was a great job, and I got to meet amazing people and see lots of different places. This way you get to use your knowledge of computers, but aren't stuck at your desk programming away.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#25

Post by elblanco »

realitygrill wrote: post #17
elblanco wrote: post #15

Go be an analyst or a researcher. There are national labs and other research places all over the U.S. and places like Battelle, Noblis, Mitre etc. are always looking for good people. There are a surprising number of people in both roles. Lots of reading, critical thinking and writing. If you can operate a computer beyond that of a six year old you can go places.

places like Battelle, Noblis, Mitre etc Can you give more examples? I've never heard of these places..

Here's a starter list with links, the history of some of these places is pretty cool as well:

This is a good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFRDC also look at the managing organizations.

Non/Not Profit Companies

Battelle Memorial Institute - https://www.battelle.org/ Noblis - http://www.noblis.org/ Mitre - http://www.mitre.org/ Aerospace Corporation - http://www.aero.org/ Rand Corporation - http://www.rand.org/ CNA - http://www.cna.org/

Some for-profit Government Contractors (I've tried to pick ones that don't make stuff like planes and tanks, they focus more on thinkery)

SAIC - http://www.saic.com Bechtel - http://www.bechtel.com Mantech - http://www.mantech.com CACI - http://www.caci.com TASC - http://www.tasc.com

there's actually a whole ton of smaller ones like Blackbird Technologies ( http://www.blackbirdtech.com/ ) that you can make a good home in also.

Labs (don't let their Manhattan Project backgrounds fool you, they do tons and tons of R&D outside of nukes, great places with lots of smart people)

Lawrence Livermore - http://www.llnl.gov/ Pacific Northwest - http://www.pnl.gov/ Los Alamos - http://www.lanl.gov/ Brookhaven National Laboratory - http://www.bnl.gov/ National Renewable Energy Laboratory - http://www.nrel.gov/ Sandia National Laboratories - http://www.sandia.gov etc.

I've worked at some of these places in my career. If you want to be surrounded by smart people all the time, pick the labs. Note: if you don't have a PhD you will be made to feel inferior to everybody else you work with, it just comes with the territory. The Non/Not-Profits can be friendlier places to work. Go for an analyst job or something similar. Most of those are also full of really smart folks, and making $$$ isn't the most important thing in the world for them. Many labs are managed by these non-profits. I listed the Contractors because it's easier to get analyst type positions with them, but I've found the general caliber of the people there (in terms of pure "smartness") to be lower. It can be tough to go from a Lab like environment, where your next cube co-worker speaks three languages fluently, can fly six kinds of aircraft, holds two PhDs and built a small-scale particle accelerator in his garage to relax to a contractor where your next cube co-worker debates, heatedly, between diet-coke and diet-pepsi, and how to score that cute waitress in the happy hour bar without his wife noticing.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#26

Post by mkramlich »

eavc wrote: post #12
zavulon wrote: post #7

Start your own business. Every day I have to do a lot of intense thinking... Every week, long term strategy and planning. Pretty much every business email that I write or phone call that I make requires a lot of thinking and analyzing. Especially since there's always an understand that if I fuck up, it's usually directly money out of my pocket. It's not for everybody, but if you're looking for a job that makes you th…

Running a business is much, much, much more about doing than it is about thinking.

The nice thing about it though is that you have to think and do. If you just think, or just do, you're hosed.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#27

Post by mkramlich »

elblanco wrote: post #25
realitygrill wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

places like Battelle, Noblis, Mitre etc Can you give more examples? I've never heard of these places..

Here's a starter list with links, the history of some of these places is pretty cool as well: This is a good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFRDC also look at the managing organizations. Non/Not Profit Companies Battelle Memorial Institute - https://www.battelle.org/ Noblis - http://www.noblis.org/ Mitre - http://www.mitre.org/ Aerospace Corporation - http://www.aero.org/ Rand Corporation - http://www.rand.org/ C…

You had me at "how to score that cute waitress..."

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#28

Post by matwood »

I would think that any kind of analytics might fit your description. The problem is that you might end up tied to Excel.

Another one might be some sort of civil engineering or any job where you need to physically build something.

Also, any job that you have can require thinking if you want it to. Learn about the job and then think about you can do it better, faster, or cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#29

Post by graugrau »

elblanco wrote: post #25
realitygrill wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

places like Battelle, Noblis, Mitre etc Can you give more examples? I've never heard of these places..

Here's a starter list with links, the history of some of these places is pretty cool as well: This is a good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFRDC also look at the managing organizations. Non/Not Profit Companies Battelle Memorial Institute - https://www.battelle.org/ Noblis - http://www.noblis.org/ Mitre - http://www.mitre.org/ Aerospace Corporation - http://www.aero.org/ Rand Corporation - http://www.rand.org/ C…

Could you give some examples of the kinds of analyst/research work people without PhDs do at these places? What kind of "formal background" do you need to get them to even consider you for one of the more thinky analyst/researcher positions?

I've looked before at some of the places you mentioned, but it seemed extremely difficult to get someone to even talk to you about the interesting analyst/research positions if you didn't have a PhD.

My background: For the longest time, I thought I would go to grad school and become a professor in pure math. I love doing research and don't care about money...but I hated the whole bureaucracy and lack of real freedom (until you're a tenured professor) of it all. I really miss having a research environment, though, so like the OP I've been wondering for a while how to get back into this.

Re: Ask HN: Non-programming, 'thinking' jobs?

#30

Post by puredemo »

theprodigy wrote: post #6

CIA and the pentagon love thinkers and people with very analytical minds. The pentagon's job is to dream up the future of the world and war and prepare for it. So as an analyst or grand strategist you would be tasked with studying how such and such technology will change global politcal and economic rule sets, etc and what america needs to do to take advantage of it or prepare for it. You can also be a person that re…

Most think tanks are very politically charged. Members aren't supposed to do original research, rather they are tasked with penning opinions that align with and justify predetermined political positions.

Secondly, your post overall just doesn't ring true to me. If the pentagon is really this keen on hiring the best and the brightest, wouldn't we have made great strides towards, say, ending our dependence on foreign oil?

There are too many examples like the above for me to believe that the pentagon is at all effective in preparing for the future. If they were, the financial meltdown wouldn't have happened, we wouldn't continue to subsidize corn like we do, we would be moving towards massive subsidies for sustainable farming, the Ogallala Aquifer wouldn't be getting empty, and so on.

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