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Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

nytimes.com

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Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#81

Post by sidek »

micaksica wrote: post #59
rbcgerard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh the old "he seems like a bad guy let's just hurry this up and skip all that messy due process stuff..."

That's not my point, at all. The fact of the matter is that in political situations, there is a calculated risk taken by both states in a diplomatic conflict. At the end of the day it is about power and what resources are required to fight this. China has the upper hand here. On the Chinese side, they have renditioned a Chinese-born, Chinese-made, PRC-living billionaire from a Chinese SAR that's more "one country, on…

Canada would likely do more if they weren't trying to get a free trade deal with China as fast as possible to avoid Trump being able to dictate their economy. The unfortunate geopolitics of our contemporary world.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#82

Post by [deleted] »

micaksica wrote: post #59
rbcgerard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh the old "he seems like a bad guy let's just hurry this up and skip all that messy due process stuff..."

That's not my point, at all. The fact of the matter is that in political situations, there is a calculated risk taken by both states in a diplomatic conflict. At the end of the day it is about power and what resources are required to fight this. China has the upper hand here. On the Chinese side, they have renditioned a Chinese-born, Chinese-made, PRC-living billionaire from a Chinese SAR that's more "one country, on…

[deleted]

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#83

Post by brilliantcode »

quakeguy wrote: post #74

Swimming with sharks includes being eaten by some on day or another.. Thats a chinese saying btw, HN folks.

Well, I think a lot of people are overlooking these "rendition" cases taking place in HK.

When they control the political will of HK, they will inevitably control the economy of HK.

HK is no longer the safe haven it once was. Looks like Singapore is about to get another huge boost in business after banking secrecy is coming under attack in Europe.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#84

Post by brilliantcode »

RestlessMind wrote: post #51

Mossad abducted Adolph Eichmann in Argentina and took him to Israel. US Navy Seals raided and killed Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan. Indian army stormed across the LoC and destroyed terrorist camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Chinese police captured Xiao Jianhua in Hongkong and took him across the border. When are these actions justified? Only when someone is a killer or a torturer or a terrorist? Or are they okay in…

All diplomatic power boils down to the lowest common denominator which is military capability.

A weaker country can claim foul all they want but the military capable country will simply ignore it when it is in their interest and act with force which will see no resistance from a weaker country.

Power justifies as well as corrupt those who wield it.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#85

Post by micaksica »

brilliantcode wrote: post #80
micaksica wrote: post #28

I don't have a lot of sympathy for this man's problems. When you're making your billions from the corruption in the Chinese state, you run the risk of ending up on the wrong side of it. It's no different than any other organized crime. I will be very surprised if Canada does or says anything of significance, given that these people are politically unpopular and causing issues for British Columbia. China has all the p…

> given that these people are politically unpopular and causing issues for British Columbia. so who are you speaking for when you use the blanket term "these people"? Are Chinese Born Canadians and other East Asian Canadians included in your labels? I'm seeing more and more of these anti-Chinese comments popping up on reddit /r/vancouver and frankly annoyed to see similar fear mongering and FUD spreading fake comment…

> There's no Seal Team Six and CSIS really isn't tasked with Jason Bourne styled missions which you are thinking of.

I'm not sure how you extrapolated my post to this extreme. I replied to a poster below as to how I am viewing the politics of the situation in more detail, if you'd prefer to get a more reasoned view than the "gut summary".

I'm not anti-Chinese. I don't live in Vancouver. It would be rather strange for me to be anti-Chinese; see my bio. I personally get a lot of benefit from East Asia. If anything, you could say that I am in many ways pro-Chinese, but I support the Chinese people.

What I do have is a strong dislike for people like this man, who have made billions for themselves through graft, rent-seeking, and cronyism by ingratiating themselves with the party elite. Much of this man's economic wealth is extracted from ordinary Chinese people. When I wrote "these people" I was not talking about Chinese: I was talking about Chinese nationals that made their wealth through corruption and exploitation instead of providing true value to their greater countrymen, then run off to a Western sovereign state in hopes that their actions don't catch up with them.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#86

Post by samsonradu »

zkirill wrote: post #36
micaksica wrote: post #28

I don't have a lot of sympathy for this man's problems. When you're making your billions from the corruption in the Chinese state, you run the risk of ending up on the wrong side of it. It's no different than any other organized crime. I will be very surprised if Canada does or says anything of significance, given that these people are politically unpopular and causing issues for British Columbia. China has all the p…

I am a Canadian citizen who lives in British Columbia and is not Chinese or of Chinese descent. The fact that a Canadian citizen was "seized" is very concerning to me and I hope that our government gets on top of this swiftly. I also don't see any facts on which you can base your corruption claim.

I think parent is making a good point. See, in corrupt/poor countries when someone becomes a billionare he does not get the benefit of doubt. The entire legal and executive systems are so rotten and shady that there is no legal way for someone to become that rich unless they play dirty regardless of their capabilities, luck, education or great ideas.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#87

Post by linkregister »

micaksica wrote: post #73
FabHK wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the issue is not so much that particular guy. The issue is the rule of law. No one in Hong Kong should be apprehended by Chinese police. If Colombian police came to Miami to snatch some drug lord, you'd object presumably, no matter your sympathy for the criminal.

US/CIA does "extraordinary rendition" all the time and sends missiles into sovereign states via drone daily. Whether or not one objects doesn't matter if there is no way to deter the behavior. If China sees no consequences China will do as China pleases. Law is irrelevant. I agree that I don't like seeing China wandering into Hong Kong, but the way China acts, the "one country, two systems" thing really is in name on…

> US/CIA does "extraordinary rendition" all the time

Then it's okay then!

> Law is irrelevant.

Commerce is extremely sensitive to rule-of-law. Instability vastly reduces investment.

> China will eventually subsume all of Hong Kong as they see fit.

That's pretty fatalistic; why get out of bed in the morning if you're just going to die someday?

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#88

Post by xiaoma »

nyolfen wrote: post #75
zkirill wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Canadian citizen who lives in British Columbia and is not Chinese or of Chinese descent. The fact that a Canadian citizen was "seized" is very concerning to me and I hope that our government gets on top of this swiftly. I also don't see any facts on which you can base your corruption claim.

>I also don't see any facts on which you can base your corruption claim. "Some of his most successful deals involved buying stakes in midsize financial institutions in smaller Chinese cities, often through a complex web of shell or dummy corporations. When Citigroup and other investors agreed to buy a big stake in the Guangdong Development Bank, for instance, one of Mr. Xiao’s investment vehicles — Puhua Investment —…

That kind of thing is pretty unremarkable behavior for the wealthy in China.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#89

Post by paulddraper »

wavefunction wrote: post #17
paulddraper wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought they praised Change and Yes We Can.

There's a difference between "Change" and complete chaos. One is an orderly transition from one state to another. The second is the devolution of order into entropy, with the attendant waste and loss of information. I wonder which better describes the policies of the current US administration.

Let me know if you figure it out.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#90

Post by dragonwriter »

sampo wrote: post #42
dragonwriter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the minority wants a Constitutionally limited government founded on equality replaced with a racist, religiously-biased authoritarianism, and manages to elect a government with that intent over the wishes of the majority, that doesn't make that governments steps to implement it's authoritarianism any less of a crisis.

> minority The Republicans have a majority in the House, in the Senate, and they have the President. Is the American voting system so defective that a minority can achieve all that?

The point made in GP is no less valid if you swap minority with majority. But, yes, the American electoral system is exactly that defective (the distortions in the thread institutions you name aren't independent of each other, as they are directly linked.)
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