New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr • Hacker News Board

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#311

Post by trollpan2 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #240

trollpan2 wrote: post #90

This is a blatant hypocrisy on American side. They will sue the shit out of Indian Solar, Pharma, Angri industries if it has competitive prices but won't allow india/emerging nations to do the same in their market. Emerging nations are bullied by developed nations for a long time and the saga goes on. I get that H1b visa was used to provide cheap services but globalization works both way. Powerful nations can't just…

I don't understand your claim of hypocrisy. What is America saying is bad, but also doing? And what suing are you talking about?

Basically USA has long history of suing Indian companies which competes with their product in Indian market.Some examples.. (1) The US Said India's Solar Power Plan Discriminates Against American Companies — And the WTO Agrees - https://news.vice.com/article/the-us-said-indias-solar-power...

(2) Indian pharma companies legally trying to make cheap generic version. Nope, big boss USA doesn't like it because it is against 'globalization'.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) Keeps Suing Generics Makers In India http://www.ibtimes.com/pfizer-inc-pfe-keeps-suing-generics-m...

and the list goes on.

But when Indian companies tries to compete in the market by providing cheap services, Nope. Sorry, Can't do.

Basically the post world war II history is all about enacting the laws to the maintain the hegemony of selected few elite countries. S. Korea and Japan were lucky in that regards as sympathy of west was on their side but emerging countries like China, India and Brazil are screwed.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#312

Post by School-Cotton » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

lukeschlather wrote: post #174

hocuspocus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixed link: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx The new bill will take "cash bonuses and similar compensation" into account. A rock bottom offer from FB/Google/... to new grads in the bay area is typically 160k.

I don't believe it. Maybe if you add up all the initial grants, but those vest over 4 years but I would bet a rock-bottom offer to a new grad is more like $120k/year or even $100k/year. Still ample for an H1B (well, under other bills) but I suspect this will put significant upward pressure on salaries in the tech industry.

What's your source on those new grad numbers?

My total comp was above $100k as a new grad at Amazon, and I think they pay less than Bay Area companies. Plus, that was three and a half years ago.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#313

Post by pm90 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #302

pm90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many loopholes with this logic, although I can see how the "free market will fixit!" philosophy is so common. The unavailability of required talent does not magically make it economically feasible to pay more for that talent. Especially the process of hiring new employees is an expensive and slow process. The vitality of American businesses depends critically on the availability of great talent at a reasona…

I'd find that persuasive if I hadn't worked with H1-Bs hired solely because they'd work more cheaply and for longer hours than their local counterparts. The current H1-B program on paper looks great. In practice, in my experience, it seems to be abused all to hell.

Well, if we are going by anecdotes, then all the H1B workers I know have been extremely talented, culturally assimilated, make more than 130k workers. Can you see why we don't rely simply on anecdotes in this forum?

I'm certainly not denying the existence of a problem. I am pointing out the flaw in your reasoning that simply raising the minimum salary will benefit American society (Businesses + Workers). It won't, because it will make them incapable of accessing the best talent at a reasonable rate.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#314

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

angry_octet wrote: post #91

scarface74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but for niche applications that can be pretty hard, you're talking people who have studied for years." How many people that have studied for years to become experts at niche applications are being paid only $60,000 a year - the current minimum for H1B Visas? I would think that getting such an expert is well worth $130,000 a year.

Agree that 60k is too low. But 130k is too high. Consider someone who has just finished their PhD in a relevant area. You want to employ them in your startup in e.g. Orlando, where the cost of living is much lower than SF. Maybe 80k is reasonable. But you'll have to pay a 50k premium. Or you could set up an office in Montreal. And then your tech team will come to Florida for a 3 month code camp every December anyway.…

I have a friend that use to live in Orlando, the cost of living is about the same where I live (a major metropolitan city that's not on the west coast). If I were to join a startup as an software architect - the person whose decisions were going to make or break the company - I would be asking more than 130K. My skills aren't really that "specialized" in the grand scheme of things. If my expertise was going to make or break the company, $130K is not that much to ask.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#315

Post by Retric » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #267

PeterisP wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that H-1B is a visa that never was intended to apply for fresh graduates - it's a vehicle for "importing" specialists that USA doesn't have, bringing in unusual expertise that USA can't build locally. Yes, "People from outside who have lots of experience (and skill) and can command a much higher salary upfront" is the exclusive target audience for the intended goals of why the H-1B visa is implemented…

> Likely there should be some path for immigrant students to stay, but H-1B shouldn't be that path. Perhaps they should create an exception that allows immigrant student to work for entry-level market wages for a few years after they graduate. I mean, immigrants students will need some kind of visa that lets them work to stay here after school. It could be the H-1B, or something else. But the only way they can stay i…

There is a huge range of salary's for recent grads from minimum wage to 200+k/year. So, a minimum salary of say 75k would allow many students to stay but not all students to stay.

PS: I suspect if there where a direct path from student to staying in the US then people would just game that process. Which would reduce the number of 'real' students and cause a political backlash.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#316

Post by omouse » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

AWESOME

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#317

Post by st3v3r » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #303

ansible wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone will be using a "startup company name" generator for these wholly owned subsidiaries and be filling out the paperwork for 50 of them all at the same time. No doubt to get a discount on the legal fees.

Is there a simple way to say in legalese "we want startups, but not 1. startups that have large companies as controlling interests at any remove, or 2. startups who exist to serve only one or two large companies"? Sure, you'd exclude a few enterprise-B2B startups from your program, and startups that have been invested in "over a barrel" such that the founders no longer retain control, but you'd also filter out these…

Not really, which is why I generally oppose special rules for startups. No way to make sure that it's bona fide startups using them.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#318

Post by user5994461 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:35 PM UTC

ansible wrote: post #152

koolba wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Startups and small businesses will get 20% of the visas. It'll be interesting to see how this is gamed Probably the old fashioned way: Tata Startup Services, a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Consulting Services.

Someone will be using a "startup company name" generator for these wholly owned subsidiaries and be filling out the paperwork for 50 of them all at the same time. No doubt to get a discount on the legal fees.

Breaking news: The name generator is available there https://www.dotomator.com/web20.html

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#319

Post by scaryclam » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

webmaven wrote: post #101

j_r_f wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah 130k being barely a living wage is an absurd thing to say. Tons and tons of people in NYC do not make 130k — even half of it would be a great salary for most — and they seem to still be living just fine.

Well, to me, a living wage isn't just living just fine , but actually managing to get ahead, at least generationaly.

"living just fine" is pretty much the definition of living wage. Having extra is having more than living wage. Having enough to get ahead is earning a really nice wage.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#320

Post by st3v3r » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #121

anondon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that this new bill is like putting lipstick on a pig which is the current system. I was hoping the amendments to the H1-B bill would be one of the silver linings of a Trump presidency, but I guess not anymore.

I've commented on this before, at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433540 I'm copying the comment below: --- I'm on an H-1B, and the thing that infuriates me about the dialogue on this is that they are effectively trying to ban skilled immigration, and exclude people like me from coming. If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amo…

"If you raised wage requirements, you'd basically be not allowing people like me to continue to stay and work in the US (after graduation from college), and would instead only allow people from outside who have lots of experience (and skill) and can command a much higher salary upfront."

I hate to break it to you, but those are the exact kind of people that H-1B visas are SUPPOSED to be used for. Not fresh out of college people. Your employer abused the visa program.