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Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

researchgate.net

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Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#11

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

Psychedelics are an investigators dream. They are safe in reasonable contexts and usage, while producing profound changes in consciousness that can be readily studied. All in the relatively well-understood context of neurotransmitters and receptor regulation.

Entire fields are based on chemicals that have specific physiological effects. When combined with genetic work, great progress can be made. And here we have a whole suite of compounds with both widely different and subtly different effects.

The prohibition of their use in research has hamstrung research in this area for decades.

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#12

Post by pizza »

Alex3917 wrote: post #8
pizza wrote: post #5

Interesting that they study the "meaningfulness" of previously meaningless music - in a way I see a relationship to reinforcement learning, namely retroactively assigning meaning to recorded but undiscovered information from the environment. " Information is a difference which makes a difference! "

What's interesting about the study is that they're not looking at whether LSD actually helps to unlock deeper meaning, but rather they're looking at whether LSD increases the subjective feeling of meaning having been unlocked. I think it would be even more interesting to see how the former correlates with the latter, both with and without LSD.

Precisely; I feel there may be some insight as to why SSRIs appear to reduce the sense of entropy pervasive in anxiety and depression. Or from a more Slate star codex perspective, why antidepressants sort of seem to do more than they seem to do.

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#13

Post by toruk_makto »

tikwidd wrote: post #2

>We demonstrate that the psychedelic effects of LSD can be fully blocked with the selective serotonin 2A receptor ketanserin. So taking a dose of ketanserin would make you stop tripping immediately?

Ketanserin was only administered 60 min before the LSD. This study did not test for subjective effects with order of brain uptake for either drug.

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#14

Post by tudorw »

btmorex wrote: post #9
tikwidd wrote: post #2

>We demonstrate that the psychedelic effects of LSD can be fully blocked with the selective serotonin 2A receptor ketanserin. So taking a dose of ketanserin would make you stop tripping immediately?

People have used atypical antipsychotics for years to abort bad trips (especially effective is Seroquel because it also has a sedatory effect). It definitely works, but most people would take an oral form which is not immediate (30-60 minutes depending on the drug). Presumably an injection would be immediate or almost immediate. Science is so funny sometimes. You could probably have a successful career by reading ero…

Erowid or PiHKAL :)

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#15

Post by veli_joza »

btmorex wrote: post #9
tikwidd wrote: post #2

>We demonstrate that the psychedelic effects of LSD can be fully blocked with the selective serotonin 2A receptor ketanserin. So taking a dose of ketanserin would make you stop tripping immediately?

People have used atypical antipsychotics for years to abort bad trips (especially effective is Seroquel because it also has a sedatory effect). It definitely works, but most people would take an oral form which is not immediate (30-60 minutes depending on the drug). Presumably an injection would be immediate or almost immediate. Science is so funny sometimes. You could probably have a successful career by reading ero…

Maybe machine learning techniques could correlate chemical drug composition with experiences described on erowid and similar databases to provide new insights into brain chemistry? It would presumably take some effort to automate distinguishing important data (exact substance, dosage taken, emotions, physical reactions, euphoria, paranoia...) from random hallucinatory tails.

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#16

Post by posterboy »

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #11

Psychedelics are an investigators dream. They are safe in reasonable contexts and usage, while producing profound changes in consciousness that can be readily studied. All in the relatively well-understood context of neurotransmitters and receptor regulation. Entire fields are based on chemicals that have specific physiological effects. When combined with genetic work, great progress can be made. And here we have a w…

one goal of such research could be stronger psychedelics (eg mk ultra), so there's a good reason for regulation.

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#17

Post by language »

pizza wrote: post #5

Interesting that they study the "meaningfulness" of previously meaningless music - in a way I see a relationship to reinforcement learning, namely retroactively assigning meaning to recorded but undiscovered information from the environment. " Information is a difference which makes a difference! "

Very glad to see references to Bateson here. To paraphrase some other cybernetician[s]:

"Order and chaos are not a properties of things, but relations of an observer to something observed - the ability for an observer to distinguish or specify pattern."

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#18

Post by Nav_Panel »

tikwidd wrote: post #2

>We demonstrate that the psychedelic effects of LSD can be fully blocked with the selective serotonin 2A receptor ketanserin. So taking a dose of ketanserin would make you stop tripping immediately?

It's also worth looking into the "research chemical" 25I-NBOMe[1] -- it's "a highly potent full agonist for the human 5-HT2A receptor" and has similar effects to LSD. It could be a useful tool in further understanding the role of this specific receptor in the human brain. Perhaps its effects could be seen as a subset of LSD's?

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe

Re: Researchers use music and LSD to understand how we attribute meaning

#20

Post by Atlantium »

posterboy wrote: post #16
Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #11

Psychedelics are an investigators dream. They are safe in reasonable contexts and usage, while producing profound changes in consciousness that can be readily studied. All in the relatively well-understood context of neurotransmitters and receptor regulation. Entire fields are based on chemicals that have specific physiological effects. When combined with genetic work, great progress can be made. And here we have a w…

one goal of such research could be stronger psychedelics (eg mk ultra), so there's a good reason for regulation.

All areas of brain research are vital to have a complete understanding of humanity. The brain is clearly a major part of how we function.
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