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Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

nytimes.com

321–330 of 498 posts

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#321

If I am not wrong this sets the wrong precedent, although it is hardly surprising that he has done this. I get a sense of Hitler and the Nazi party idelogy from this, they killed their opponents, now it is just firing & shaming & blah blah that their trolls do. But these things start innocuously, nobody knew that Hitler would turn out that way, not even thise who were mesmerized by his charisma, they staunchly suppor…

Request for feature on HN: anytime you write 'Hitler', your comment starts out at -1 karma.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* The ban is a temporary measure and has nothing to do with religion. President Obama signed a list of countries into law for enhanced visa scrutiny and President Trump used that exact list without modification, directly referencing the statute in which it was codified. They'd already been identified as terrorism hotspots that warranted additional scrutiny from immigration officials by the Obama administration. Trump…

> President Obama signed a list of countries into law > using the exact list that President Obama signed into law Yes, it's the same list of countries... with much, much broader restrictions placed upon them in this instance, to the point that some of the restrictions may violate the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (point[0], counterpoint[1]). 0. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigratio...…

opinion columns might not be the best sources of news,

here is another article by the NY times which gives a much more neutral review of its legality.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/politics/trump-immigra...

With me, I'm noticing my lawyer friends in America seem split on the issue, some think it's legal others thing it is illegal but my reading suggests that it is legal. Yes it does violate laws of congress on the issue, but the constitution gives the president, not congress the power over foreign affairs.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#324
post #2

If I understand it right this is the first time an AG has been relieved for purely political reasons. If the AG doesn't think it's likely they'll win a defense, that usually doesn't cause an issue. As an edit: it probably wouldn't have been reasonable for her to put up an intentionally weak case, but if the order isn't able to stand up in court, then what? The major worry for me is Trump's seeking to punish anyone wh…

There is an expression that gained currency in Russia in recent years: negative selection. The Russian president nominates the worst possible people to the top jobs of government--people who take bribes, people who are incompetent and are known to have committed grave mistakes--because those are the people most likely to be loyal to him to the end. Any show of competence and independence leads to a summary dismissal.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#325
post #2

If I understand it right this is the first time an AG has been relieved for purely political reasons. If the AG doesn't think it's likely they'll win a defense, that usually doesn't cause an issue. As an edit: it probably wouldn't have been reasonable for her to put up an intentionally weak case, but if the order isn't able to stand up in court, then what? The major worry for me is Trump's seeking to punish anyone wh…

He's the leader of the executive branch. He's leading.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#326
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The major worry for me is Trump's seeking to punish anyone who shows disloyalty. This shouldn't be surprising nor worrying. This is how hierarchical leadership works and it's fully expected that anyone under the President may be forced to do whatever the President wants. It's the entire reason there are 2 other branches of government.

Would you write an app that stores important passwords in plaintext client side if your boss demanded it?

It is actually quite common to only hash passwords server side. Not on the client.

edit: Never mind. Parent was about storing not about sending passwords in clear text.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're correct. My language was imprecise in that I was referring specifically to the orders limiting entry of foreign nationals, and also specifically referring to singling out specific religious affiliations rather than religious background as a general principle. But yes, the order does also contain an instruction to prioritize refugees seeking asylum from generalized religious persecution, and states that th…

> and states that the refugee's claim should only be prioritized if they are legitimately a religious minority WTF does religion-based persecution have to do with "legitimately [being] a religious minority"? You are aware that people are persecuted for questioning doctrine of the religion that they nominally belong to? That people are persecuted for being gay on religious grounds, even if it's their own religion? If…

>WTF does religion-based persecution have to do with "legitimately [being] a religious minority"?

Because it's an attempt to illegitimately get prioritized refugee status if they learn they can just claim to be religiously oppressed? Wouldn't even a basic vetting verify their claim of religious oppression before granting asylum based on it, and wouldn't a religious minority status be important to credibly claiming persecution? A "religious minority" is not necessarily non-Muslim; it could refer to a Shia Muslim in a predominantly Sunni area or vice-versa, or some type of fringe / modernist Islamic interpretation. The point is confirming that actual religious persecution is going on and not that someone found a shortcut.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#328
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really where the consequences stop flowing though. Yes, the President has a right to fire an AG that refuses to implement a President's policy. At the same time, the public may draw certain inferences from that decision. If a big oil company fired its top lawyer for refusing to do something she though violated environmental laws, very reasonable inferences could be made about the leadership. The US Attorne…

In that field very low level jobs are entirely professional and very high level jobs are entirely political, which makes the oil lawyer analogy invalid. There is no professional insight in a political act and vice versa. In this specific example she made a highly public political act containing no professional content, naturally that results in firing.

Even low level federal officials have an independent duty not to violate peoples' constitutional rights. They can be held personally liable for violating clearly established constitutional law, and following administration policy is not a defense. Usually the "clearly established" part protects the low level folks, but here you could see CBP line agents being held personally liable for excluding green card holders.

On top of that, the AG has additional obligations as an attorney. An attorney must sign her name to every legal argument she makes to the court. She may not permit a non-attorney to override her legal judgment. Here, the AG did not hold a press release discussing the politics of immigration. She told her subordinates not to make legal arguments defending the order--arguments she would have had to sign her name to. It is absolutely an exercise of professional judgment, not policymaking.

Of course Trump can fire her for any reason. But the public is also entitled to draw reasonable inferences from those actions.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 USC § 1152(a)(1)(a): Except as specifically provided in paragraph (2) and in sections 1101(a)(27), 1151(b)(2)(A)(i), and 1153 of this title, no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence. Paragraph 2 does not provide grounds for Trump's order. It sets a cap on t…

8 USC §1182(f) which states in part: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may…

The National Review's article basically boils down to "well, we found this section that allows suspending entry of some people, and even though there's another section explicitly forbidding doing this stuff based on national origin we're going to say he has essentially unlimited power to do whatever he wants".

Meanwhile the federal judge who ordered the stay thinks theress a strong likelihood that the order is either unlawful or even unconstitutional, and a senior Justice official thought it was illegal or unconstitutional.

I'm going to side with the judge and the Justice official over the law firm of Trump and Bannon, LLP.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#330

From Sam Altman on Twitter: ".@SallyQYates, @ycombinator and many others would be delighted to give you a job and resources to continue your work defending American law." https://twitter.com/sama/status/826262739202908160

Why is Sam dragging Ycombinator into this?
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