Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 498 posts

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#301

Post by r_smart »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #115
workerIbe wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I think alot of Trump supporters are taking seriously is the phenomena that is the left feeding off It's own hyperbole, it's pretty disturbing.

And a lot of us on both sides of the former partisan political spectrum are wonder what - if any - boundaries Trump supporters have past which they would not defend the actions of this administration.

Speaking for myself, I'm mixed on this particular EO. I don't like the restrictions placed on people who were already determined to be legal residents via green cards / visas whatever. Fortunately, I think that's going to get struck down. So my support of this current EO is mixed. When would I not support him? Had he tried to do something permanent, had he tried to go forward with a ban all Muslims approach. Those both seem pretty clearly wrong to me.

I find the hyperbole around this EO kind of absurd though. We're talking about two bans of 120 and 90 days respectively, from a list that was generated via a similar ban in 2011 and which doesn't actually specify any religion. In so far as I can tell, due to the 'persecuted religious minority' aspect of the EO, a Sunni in a predominantly Shia nation and vice versa would still qualify. It also lays out being open to reviews on an individual basis.

I think it's overall mixed, and probably not the best way to get this done. I also think claims of fascism, literally Hitler and other hyperbole are overblown. It's also not a Muslim ban. Even if he stopped all people from those 7 countries permanently, there's still something like one billion Muslims still eligible to enter the country.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#302

Post by mikeash »

walljm wrote: post #285
nikdaheratik wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it isn't a law. It's an executive order. The President isn't a dictator and doesn't get to rule any department by decree. If the secretary feels that the order is illegal, they can refuse to follow it, and get forced to resign, but then the President would still need to find someone else to follow the order.

The executive order was backed by the law though. The President does have the powers he exercised, at least, near as I can tell from the US Code cited in the order. I don't necessarily like the order, or how it was carried out, but I'm not sure her actions were justified on the grounds she cited. https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/27/execu... and https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/chapter-12/s…

Aren't many of the objections to the order based on constitutional concerns like depriving people of due process? That would override anything in the US Code.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#303

Post by croon »

grzm wrote: post #169
pfooti wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what kind of message does this send, given the ongoing russia-related investigations underway? I mean, if he fires people and breaks the chain of succession to shop for a sock puppet over an executive order?

I haven't heard anything about Trump looking for someone other than Sessions, who's been his pick for a while now. Have you heard otherwise?

Until Sessions is sworn in, the succession would fall to Suzanne Anton, but instead Boente was sworn in (supposedly, it wasn't public).

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#304

Post by ludicast »

probably_wrong wrote: post #58
Daishiman wrote: post #49

Please, take two seconds to read the statement. There's third graders who literally have a better grasp of the English language than Trump.

Let's not fall into the trap of thinking that Trump is stupid. He may be a lot of things, but stupid people don't make it into the White House. And speaking of people who may be smarter than we think: http://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

I remember hearing on the Presidential podcast (from the WP), that after losing a congressional election, GWB promised to never be out-churched or out-countried again.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#305

Post by mikeash »

needz wrote: post #275
pcwalton wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing in Trump's EO that singles anyone out by religious affiliation or background. This is false. It has explicit exceptions for "religious minorities". Wikipedia: "After the resumption of USRAP, refugee applications will be prioritized based on religion-based persecutions only in the case that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in that country."

I would say that while the statement is false, context is required. America has historically given priority to immigrants that are victim to religion-based persecution. We are, after all, a nation founded by settlers seeking freedom from religious prosecution from a country in which they were the minority.

I'd say the context just makes it worse, since it would have been so easy to word it in an unobjectionable way. Give exceptions for people suffering from religious persecution, and you're all set.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#306

Post by [deleted] »

wtbob wrote: post #291
rohshall wrote: post #135

Almost my whole adult life, I looked up to America. Whatever I know and my life's value system is mostly because of the books I read by American authors. I couldn't belive the news when I heard that Americans chose Trump. When did America become so stupid to vote in these people?

> When did America become so stupid to vote in these people? Well, in 1996 we re-elected Clinton, despite demonstrable evidence that he was a terrible president and an execrable human being. In 2004 we re-elected Bush, despite him violating his oath to the constitution. In 2012 we re-elected Obama, a man whose mediocrity and incompetence make Carter look like a capable executive (and our other choice was a business e…

[deleted]

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#307

Post by davexunit »

tptacek wrote: post #280
davexunit wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for letting us know that you are a fascist.

You can't argue this way on HN, and since your side of this argument is so utterly in command of the high ground, I'm kind of baffled by why you'd think name calling was a good idea. You have the facts on your side. Use them to win the argument, already.

That's like saying that one should debate creationists or flat earthers.

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#308

Post by [deleted] »

VLM wrote: post #298
rayiner wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really where the consequences stop flowing though. Yes, the President has a right to fire an AG that refuses to implement a President's policy. At the same time, the public may draw certain inferences from that decision. If a big oil company fired its top lawyer for refusing to do something she though violated environmental laws, very reasonable inferences could be made about the leadership. The US Attorne…

In that field very low level jobs are entirely professional and very high level jobs are entirely political, which makes the oil lawyer analogy invalid. There is no professional insight in a political act and vice versa. In this specific example she made a highly public political act containing no professional content, naturally that results in firing.

[deleted]

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#309

Post by mikeash »

wtbob wrote: post #293
davidw wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She signed an oath to defend the constitution, not an oath of loyalty to Trump.

> She signed an oath to defend the constitution, not an oath of loyalty to Trump. Yes, indeed: and the choice available which is consistent with that oath is to resign.

Why is that the only choice? I don't get this idea that you must either obey or resign. What's wrong with refusing to obey, not resigning, and giving your superiors the choice of accepting that or firing you?

Re: Trump Fires Acting Attorney General

#310

Post by croon »

wtbob wrote: post #291
rohshall wrote: post #135

Almost my whole adult life, I looked up to America. Whatever I know and my life's value system is mostly because of the books I read by American authors. I couldn't belive the news when I heard that Americans chose Trump. When did America become so stupid to vote in these people?

> When did America become so stupid to vote in these people? Well, in 1996 we re-elected Clinton, despite demonstrable evidence that he was a terrible president and an execrable human being. In 2004 we re-elected Bush, despite him violating his oath to the constitution. In 2012 we re-elected Obama, a man whose mediocrity and incompetence make Carter look like a capable executive (and our other choice was a business e…

Nice. You really nailed it there.

Let history be the judge, and I doubt it agrees with your comparisons.

Post reply on HN