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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

bbc.com

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#81

Post by pixelbill »

wyager wrote: post #56
sitkack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

> violating the environmental laws of every western country. European nations aren't "western"?

These terms were coined before the Americas were discovered by Europeans.

Europe was the West, then you have the Middle East, then the Far East (China, Japan). That was the whole world to them pretty much. When the Americas were discovered they were known as the New World, and eventually became known as the West as well (Due to the fact that most of our culture comes from Europe, eg. Western Culture).

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#82

Post by stephengillie »

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

It's more effective to beg forgiveness than ask permission, especially when you are a rock star.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#83

Post by dylanz »

I'm on my second Tacoma (sold my first to move overseas) and it has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. My only VW experience has been a 71 bug that I'd have to fix on the side of the road once a month, so I can't "really" speak to VW reliability :)

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#84

Post by developer2 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #14
ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

A corporation that deserves "jail time" should equate to bankruptcy. Simple as that. The fact that these companies get fined for < 1% of their total yearly profit is a joke. If you would send the person to jail, the company should be dead. $50 Million revenue? $50 Million fine. $2 Billion revenue? $2 Billion fine. Even if nobody goes to prison, the company should receive the death sentence - not a slap on the wrist. It should be that simple.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#85

Post by samtho »

dylanz wrote: post #83

I'm on my second Tacoma (sold my first to move overseas) and it has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. My only VW experience has been a 71 bug that I'd have to fix on the side of the road once a month, so I can't "really" speak to VW reliability :)

Just to point out that this is purely anecdotal. If you bought the 71 bug in any other era except for the early 70s, you probably didn't buy it for exceptional reliability.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#86

Post by scott_karana »

joecool1029 wrote: post #34
ams6110 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was only the tyrannically strict California emissions tests that they cheated on? The cars met standard emissions limits, unless I'm mistaken. Was it even an issue in Europe? I thought their standards were even more relaxed.

You are mistaken on US regulation. They did not meet NOX emission limits in the US. Europe has stricter fuel regulation, less strict emission regulation so it was probably cool there. Every TDI model over there is usually tuned for better performance. Oh well, my chariot of lies gets bought back in 2 days. Best investment ever in a car! Since I got my parents and 4 other friends to buy TDI's too when they saw the mil…

So... they screwed you and your family over three times, and you're a happy customer?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#87

Post by NamTaf »

pixelbill wrote: post #78
NamTaf wrote: post #44

For all the criticism about their cheating of metrics and rules, I recently hired a VW Polo Diesel for a month to drive around Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and France and found it to be a comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent car. It handled doing 160 down the Autobahn quite comfortably without steering judder or anything I'd expected at higher speeds. It accelerated surprisingly well (not even consid…

No one is debating the sporty performance of your VW. You dismiss all criticisms of them immediately and go on to talk about your lovely driving experience, making it seem like you either work for VW or have a vested interest in them, so your opinion instantly counts as worthless in my book. If a person had done what VW did they would be in jail, but because we as a society have determined that rich people are much m…

I wasn't dismissing the criticisms; in fact I tried to disclaim that. My point was that notwithstanding the valid criticisms, they appear to be producing cars that in my mind would appeal to consumers so it doesn't surprise me if they were seeing significant sales. Whether they're capable of doing so precisely because they violate those rules is beyond my knowledge.

For the record, I absolutely do not work for VW or indeed in the automotive industry in any way, and I neither gain nor lose any value whatsoever if they flourish or go bankrupt. To repeat: I wasn't astroturfing, I was trying to express my own personal opinion on why they may see these sales in spite of their negative press about cheating emissions controls.

I agree that I could've made that more clear in the OP though, had I not just typed it as a stream of consciousness during my lunch break. I can't edit this disclaimer into the OP or reword it, though, so it will have to remain here instead.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#88

Post by TwoBit »

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

How did Google, Amazon, and Facebook cheat, in your opinion?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#89

Post by Eric_WVGG »

kuschku wrote: post #68
hkmurakami wrote: post #26

Frankly this is a vanity metric anyways. Toyota's brake recall back around 2010 was directly related to its rapid global production expansion in an effort to become #1 in sales volume. Their QC and reliability/consistency across geographies suffered as a result. Iirc the CEO himself was quoted saying the company lost sight of what should really matter -- making products that fulfill the needs and desires of their cus…

> Frankly this is a vanity metric anyways. Not really. The German government (through the federal government, the state of Lower Saxony, and the investment bank of the council of states) owns a large share of VW, and so a lot of this money goes directly back into the tax budget.

I was sort of wondering why VW wasn't fined to the extent of the value of the company minus $1, or some similar scheme to effectively nationalize the company. I guess that wouldn’t accomplish much…

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#90

Post by NamTaf »

sitkack wrote: post #53
NamTaf wrote: post #44

For all the criticism about their cheating of metrics and rules, I recently hired a VW Polo Diesel for a month to drive around Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and France and found it to be a comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent car. It handled doing 160 down the Autobahn quite comfortably without steering judder or anything I'd expected at higher speeds. It accelerated surprisingly well (not even consid…

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

I wouldn't know if that performance comes precisely because they violate those laws or not, so I'll take your word for it. Per my sibling comment, I wasn't dismissing those valid criticisms for their flouting of the laws. I was merely trying to point out that through whatever means they've produced what appeared to me to be reasonably compelling cars and so it wouldn't surprise me to see them getting significant sales volumes as a result.
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