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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

bbc.com

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#71

Post by kartan »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #39
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

I'm not sure how to take "The emissions scandal should have ended VW" but assuming you mean financially, I cant agree. As a listed company you would be taking away many peoples jobs and savings who are innocent parties in this. The bigger issue is it seems there has been one executive scapegoat and no real punishment for the multitude of people involved. While a company fine is good, if we were to gaol and heavily fi…

> As a listed company you would be taking away many peoples jobs and savings who are innocent parties in this.

1. Nationalize part of the company hurting investors. 2. Auction the shares to the market 3. Profit$

This way a "too big to fail" company can continue running its business as usual while punishing the value of the company. That doesn't means that personal responsibilities are forgiven, any one that breaks the law should be prosecuted.

There are probably a lot of other solutions, the problem is that economics is not about economy but about politics.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#72

Post by bonzini »

joecool1029 wrote: post #50
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

>Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime. TBH, HN's BFF Elon Musk thinks regulators were too hard on VW: http://www.takepart.com/open-letter-to-california-air-resour... But yeah by this logic, Winterkorn was worse than Hitler. Went way more wholesale on the gassing.

I think it says it was pointless, not harsh. The suggestion is not any less harsh.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#73

Post by [deleted] »

joecool1029 wrote: post #50
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

>Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime. TBH, HN's BFF Elon Musk thinks regulators were too hard on VW: http://www.takepart.com/open-letter-to-california-air-resour... But yeah by this logic, Winterkorn was worse than Hitler. Went way more wholesale on the gassing.

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#74

Post by developer2 »

wyager wrote: post #56
sitkack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

> violating the environmental laws of every western country. European nations aren't "western"?

Actually, Europe is included in the common definition of "Western country". Yes, that definition is inflated by the US's ego of being the centre of the universe for no legitimate reason; but "Western country" is synonymous with "First World country". Strange but true.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#75

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

sitkack wrote: post #53
NamTaf wrote: post #44

For all the criticism about their cheating of metrics and rules, I recently hired a VW Polo Diesel for a month to drive around Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and France and found it to be a comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent car. It handled doing 160 down the Autobahn quite comfortably without steering judder or anything I'd expected at higher speeds. It accelerated surprisingly well (not even consid…

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

VW is not alone, Fiat Chrysler did the same thing.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/news/companies/epa-emissions...

the tricky question: did anybody figure out how to do a clean enough diesel engine without cheating?

i think its funny that European countries were pushing Diesel engines just because they emit less CO2, disregarding the NOx problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/05/vw-diesel-c...

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#76

Post by monkmartinez »

usaphp wrote: post #35
tikhonj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheaper European brands like Skoda and SEAT also likely have significant volume. Skoda, for example, sold over a million vehicles—a non-trivial 10% of VW group's total. Audi sold something like 1.8M, probably with better margins than Skoda, so it's certainly a more important brand, but SEAT and Skoda aren't trivial either. Just in terms of car sales, SEAT + Skoda ≈ Audi.

Seat and skoda are only popular in handful of small European countries, vw is popular around the globe.

If we could buy Seat and/or Skoda in the states, I bet they would sell rather well. Kia and Hyundai are no longer "bargain" vehicles as they were in the past.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#77

Post by mehwoot »

wyager wrote: post #56
sitkack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

> violating the environmental laws of every western country. European nations aren't "western"?

European nations aren't "western"?

Actually European nations is what it originally meant. Western European.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

The term originally had a literal geographic meaning. It contrasted Europe with the cultures and civilizations of the Middle East and North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and the remote Far East which early-modern Europeans saw as the East. In the contemporary cultural meaning, the phrase Western world includes Europe, as well as many countries of European colonial origin with substantial European ancestral populations in the Americas and Oceania.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#78

Post by pixelbill »

NamTaf wrote: post #44

For all the criticism about their cheating of metrics and rules, I recently hired a VW Polo Diesel for a month to drive around Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and France and found it to be a comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent car. It handled doing 160 down the Autobahn quite comfortably without steering judder or anything I'd expected at higher speeds. It accelerated surprisingly well (not even consid…

No one is debating the sporty performance of your VW. You dismiss all criticisms of them immediately and go on to talk about your lovely driving experience, making it seem like you either work for VW or have a vested interest in them, so your opinion instantly counts as worthless in my book. If a person had done what VW did they would be in jail, but because we as a society have determined that rich people are much more important than poor people, this will never happen.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#79

Post by [deleted] »

mulmen wrote: post #64
wyager wrote: post #59

I'm well over 200,000 miles on my '98 Land Cruiser and looking for a replacement, but frankly, Toyota's current offerings aren't looking too hot... The 200 series land cruiser is trending towards a suburb-mobile and is basically unsuited for offroad use, whereas the 70-, 80- and 100-series are awesome for offroading, even in stock off-the-lot configuration. The 4Runner is a decent offroad vehicle, but doesn't have th…

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#80

Post by HillaryBriss »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #75
sitkack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that acceleration is enabled by it violating the environmental laws of every western country.

VW is not alone, Fiat Chrysler did the same thing. http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/news/companies/epa-emissions... the tricky question: did anybody figure out how to do a clean enough diesel engine without cheating? i think its funny that European countries were pushing Diesel engines just because they emit less CO2, disregarding the NOx problem. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/05/vw-diesel-c...

And so did Trump. And before that, so did Obama. And it's against the Geneva convention. And ... oh, uh ... I'm terribly sorry. I'm in the wrong thread.

Please carry on.

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