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Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

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Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#161

Post by Groxx »

mikekchar wrote: post #159
Groxx wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I grabbed Newton's gravity model as an example. It's known to be a flawed model, only useful as a simplified approximation method that's "good enough" for many purposes. It's like having a model that says "quack-like sound == duck". It's wrong. We know it's wrong. It may be useful when looking at birds, but it's 100% wrong when your hard drive produces the noise. Of course it's a spectrum, but some of th…

We could, one day, wake up to discover that we are actually living in the matrix. The rules of physics were only added by the machines to keep us amused so that we don't discover the true nature of our beings (batteries for the machines). Yeah... I don't believe it either :-) But the key is that we can't know. Maybe "God did it" is the truth and the rest is just appearances. Maybe our mathematical constructs do repre…

Yes, but now we're getting so metaphysical that all usefulness has evaporated. "Nothing is knowable" and all. I can agree, but it's a stance which provides no course of action.

We have a current best, or at least competing current bests. These may later be invalidated - that's fine, that's learning new things. It doesn't mean that everything we know now is indistinguishably-wrong as everything we thought we knew in the past. We can predict things now that we couldn't before.

We also have approximations that don't attempt to predict the system, they just produce useful results often enough to be retained - are these indistinguishable from all other attempts at describing reality?

How far do we take it? If Pi is 3, it may actually be true! It'd just invalidate a ridiculous amount of what we think we know. That's equal to quantum mechanics, which appears to have concrete applications.

---

Perfect is the enemy of good.

> The article claims that the model is at least as consistent as other models while being simpler in some instances. I think work needs to be done to verify those claims.

Great!

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#162

Post by hackuser »

badloginagain wrote: post #147
brianberns wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top article on that site at the moment is about the "Jewish elite". WTF? http://www.science20.com/sascha_vongehr/scientists_for_donal...

Kind of terrifying since I just read this article on the targeting of specific groups: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-ca...

Interesting. Why does that author claim to have knowledge or expertise? I looked at his bio but didn't learn much about him.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#163

Post by losteric »

droopybuns wrote: post #160

I cant tell if all of the comments here are genuine, or the output of some high performance markov chains. Also, i have absolutely no ability to penetrate what is being described by this article. Holograms work by applying lasers to different surfaces and re-rendering the image relative to the original laser's point of view. How does the word 'holographic' apply?

Holograms are 2d images that look 3d from our perspective.

Similarly, this theory is that our perceived reality of 3 spatial dimensions + time is actually fully contained on a 2d surface.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#164

Post by platz »

droopybuns wrote: post #160

I cant tell if all of the comments here are genuine, or the output of some high performance markov chains. Also, i have absolutely no ability to penetrate what is being described by this article. Holograms work by applying lasers to different surfaces and re-rendering the image relative to the original laser's point of view. How does the word 'holographic' apply?

Black hole Firewalls with Sean Carroll and Jennifer Ouellette (45m+50s quick summary of the holographic principle) https://youtu.be/_8bhtEgB8Mo?t=45m50s

Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram (more dense/verbose)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#165

Post by anigbrowl »

brianberns wrote: post #135
anigbrowl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's not the case that everything is equidistant. Allow me to illustrate with a simplified example from lower dimensions. (Warning: pseudoscientific bullshit ahead) Picture a transparent sphere, covered in tiny dots. Imagine that you live on one of these dots and the others are stars. Now, mark 'your' dot and look around on the sphere to find the dot that is farthest away, on the opposite side. If the intern…

This makes sense, but seems to be an answer to a different question about the curvature of spacetime. How does it relate to the universe being a hologram?

Only indirectly (I did warn you I was gonna bullshit a bit). One obvious way would be in a spherical projection onto a flat surface, but that makes it harder to explain the basis of the curvature first.

I apologize for being so vague; I'm trying to develop something more solid related to this idea, but I'm at that in-between stage of not being ready to properly articulate it yet.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#166

Post by anigbrowl »

brianberns wrote: post #135
anigbrowl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's not the case that everything is equidistant. Allow me to illustrate with a simplified example from lower dimensions. (Warning: pseudoscientific bullshit ahead) Picture a transparent sphere, covered in tiny dots. Imagine that you live on one of these dots and the others are stars. Now, mark 'your' dot and look around on the sphere to find the dot that is farthest away, on the opposite side. If the intern…

This makes sense, but seems to be an answer to a different question about the curvature of spacetime. How does it relate to the universe being a hologram?

Only indirectly (I did warn you I was gonna bullshit a bit). One obvious way would be in a spherical projection onto a flat surface, but that makes it harder to explain the basis of the curvature first.

I apologize for being so vague; I'm trying to develop something more solid related to this idea, but I'm at that in-between stage of not being ready to properly articulate it yet.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#168

Post by sauronlord »

sandworm101 wrote: post #150
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distances are "illusory" to some extent anyway. On a large scale, relativity makes both time and space dependent somewhat on other factors. On a small scale, quantum mechanics similarly de-absolutizes position (space) and momentum. Space and time as absolutes appear to be a construct, a consequence of us being highly complex neural networks trained at a specific scale of the Universe - the "human scale" - as beings a…

Up or down several dozen orders of magnitude. Time and space exist for the cells in our bodies, and for mountains, moons and most stars. Time and space only break down substantially for things smaller than molicules or large enough to twist spacetime back in itself (black holes). A mouse is no further away from the moon than a dog or elephant.

Time and space does not exist for a mountain.

Time and space are first and foremost concepts (ideas, opinions, "facts")

Have you tried asking a mountain whether it ascribes the state "exist" to the concepts of time and space?

It is true that time and space exists for humans thinking about the mountain however.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#169

Post by drdeca »

dgfgfdagasdfgfa wrote: post #144
brianberns wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top article on that site at the moment is about the "Jewish elite". WTF? http://www.science20.com/sascha_vongehr/scientists_for_donal...

It's clearly a right-wing site. Or at least they seem to rant against "leftist" scientists. http://www.science20.com/kevin_m_folta/the_scicomm_challenge...

I wouldn't think being "right wing" would be sufficient to explain using the phrase "jewish elite".

Like, can we not treat "the people who say things like 'jewish elite' " and "people who are right wing" as being the same group?

I mean, I'm not saying they don't have an overlap ( It is probably true that P(a person is right wing | they say stuff about "the jewish elite") > P(the person is right wing) ),

but I'm concerned about the social incentives that might be created/contributed-to if they are treated as if they are the same.

Re: Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

#170

Post by dragonwriter »

Groxx wrote: post #110
dragonwriter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until and unleas.a theory is falsified and revealed to be an incomplete model, there is no way to differentiate the "mathematical tool" from the "underlying reality" case, since any theory that works without qualification is, by definition, a model which is not detectably distinguishable from being the underlying reality.

So is holographic universe theory expected to work without qualification (thus being indistinguishable), or is it more of a temporary patch that nobody believes is correct, but works better for one area, and worse for others? Newton's model of gravity works well enough for approximation at human scales, but is flawed enough that you don't use it for astrophysics or microscopic realms.

I don't think anyone working in science believes any model they investigate is going to work without qualification for all time (for a limited time, with current ability to verify, sure; Newtonian gravity worked that way for a long time, too.)

Science approaches the underlying reality asymptotically.

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