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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

bbc.com

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#11

Post by colechristensen »

jeffnv wrote: post #2

I guess the whole 'cheating on the emissions tests' scandal didn't hurt them too bad. Here I thought it would destroy them. Silly me!

I blame the regulators just as much as VW for making shitty tests that gave too much incentive to cheat (which wouldn't have been difficult to detect or eliminate).

I also own a Jetta which I've been very happy with for ~8 years. I don't get any sense that they were cheating on the quality of my car, and it seems justice is being done for the cheating on tests.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#12

Post by vmarsy »

bshimmin wrote: post #7
jeffnv wrote: post #2

I guess the whole 'cheating on the emissions tests' scandal didn't hurt them too bad. Here I thought it would destroy them. Silly me!

I'm honestly not sure the public really cared about this - was anyone really surprised that this was happening? Most people I spoke to at the time seemed to be of the opinion that all the other manufacturers would be found out next. My friend bought a Golf the week after the scandal broke; I've bought a Golf GTI and a Polo in the last six months. They're just, well, pretty decent cars.

Well in the US, Diesel isn't very popular so the impact won't be as big, but people in Europe at least are going to rethink about getting Diesel, and the governments there might reconsider the big tax break they give to diesel engine which are supposed to be cleaner than gasoline (making diesel cheaper at the pump than regular gasoline for consumers in Europe).

Now we discovered that it's not only VW, but many car makers, so people aren't mad at VW as much as they were at the beginning of the Diesel-gate scandal.

I would have boycotted VW for life if they were the only one doing it. I'm certainly boycotting their diesel engines.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#13

Post by jasonmp85 »

bshimmin wrote: post #7
jeffnv wrote: post #2

I guess the whole 'cheating on the emissions tests' scandal didn't hurt them too bad. Here I thought it would destroy them. Silly me!

I'm honestly not sure the public really cared about this - was anyone really surprised that this was happening? Most people I spoke to at the time seemed to be of the opinion that all the other manufacturers would be found out next. My friend bought a Golf the week after the scandal broke; I've bought a Golf GTI and a Polo in the last six months. They're just, well, pretty decent cars.

> they're just, well, pretty decent

Unlike their drivers, apparently.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#14

Post by gonzo41 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail?

Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall.

The emissions scandal should have ended VW.

Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#15

Post by Brakenshire »

bshimmin wrote: post #7
jeffnv wrote: post #2

I guess the whole 'cheating on the emissions tests' scandal didn't hurt them too bad. Here I thought it would destroy them. Silly me!

I'm honestly not sure the public really cared about this - was anyone really surprised that this was happening? Most people I spoke to at the time seemed to be of the opinion that all the other manufacturers would be found out next. My friend bought a Golf the week after the scandal broke; I've bought a Golf GTI and a Polo in the last six months. They're just, well, pretty decent cars.

Most people wouldn't be surprised the car was engineered to do well under the test, but having an algorithm which detects the test is occurring, and including an actual vial of urea which is used only under those conditions. That is above and beyond.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#16

Post by ams6110 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #14
ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

Many people look at emissions testing as an annoyance and I doubt that outside of environmental circles that very many people cared. And it was diesel car emissions -- a niche of the US market that's almost invisible anyway.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#17

Post by ssambros »

ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

So setting up regulatory capture frameworks through cronies at the government to collect rents from people is not cheating since it happens to fit the definition of 'legal' and therefore fine to do?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#18

Post by ams6110 »

vmarsy wrote: post #12
bshimmin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly not sure the public really cared about this - was anyone really surprised that this was happening? Most people I spoke to at the time seemed to be of the opinion that all the other manufacturers would be found out next. My friend bought a Golf the week after the scandal broke; I've bought a Golf GTI and a Polo in the last six months. They're just, well, pretty decent cars.

Well in the US, Diesel isn't very popular so the impact won't be as big, but people in Europe at least are going to rethink about getting Diesel, and the governments there might reconsider the big tax break they give to diesel engine which are supposed to be cleaner than gasoline (making diesel cheaper at the pump than regular gasoline for consumers in Europe). Now we discovered that it's not only VW, but many car ma…

I thought it was only the tyrannically strict California emissions tests that they cheated on? The cars met standard emissions limits, unless I'm mistaken. Was it even an issue in Europe? I thought their standards were even more relaxed.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#19

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

gonzo41 wrote: post #14
ransom1538 wrote: post #5

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

You can impose fines, but the trouble is that if the fine imposed is smaller than the profit gained from their misdeeds, (or than the losses actual compliance would cause) then they're still winning.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#20

Post by Inception »

bshimmin wrote: post #7
jeffnv wrote: post #2

I guess the whole 'cheating on the emissions tests' scandal didn't hurt them too bad. Here I thought it would destroy them. Silly me!

I'm honestly not sure the public really cared about this - was anyone really surprised that this was happening? Most people I spoke to at the time seemed to be of the opinion that all the other manufacturers would be found out next. My friend bought a Golf the week after the scandal broke; I've bought a Golf GTI and a Polo in the last six months. They're just, well, pretty decent cars.

I, for one, was very surprised this was happening. I don't know the first thing about calculating the emissions from my car...is there a noticeable smell or visible difference between cars that emit less vs more? Since I don't know anything about the topic, my default assumption is the car manufacturers are playing by the rules.

Although, once the news broke I did think we'd be hearing about other manufacturers too.

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