A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes • Hacker News Board

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#21

Post by ashark » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 8:44 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #15

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

You can make popcorn in a saucepan, it's easy and fun. Gourmet popcorn (different kernels) also tastes far better even than the bulk kernels you can find in the store.

I do this, and yeah, the results are pretty great, even with ordinary and easy-to-find Orville Redenbacher corn (off and store brands, not so much).

Have you found any varieties that taste like the parent poster describes? I.E. with heavy corn flavor? I've tried a few "heirloom" varieties and they've usually been nuttier-tasting, with smaller pops and a much worse popped-to-unpopped ratio than the Redenbacher corn (though the flavor's usually interesting enough that I don't mind that too much). Definitely not cornier-tasting—farther from it, if anything.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#22

Post by baursak » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

There's a book called "Tomatoland" that discusses the tomato industry and how tomatoes were selected not for taste, but to last through the journey to the supermarket and shelf life once there. Interview with author and excerpt are here: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137371975/how-industrial-farmi...

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#23

Post by conistonwater » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

There's a strange thing about canned tomatoes in North America: manufacturers seem to always put a firming agent (calcium chloride) which makes canned tomatoes supernaturally firm. But imported European canned tomatoes are fine.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#24

Post by throwawaydbfif » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #18

searine wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any seeds that happen to get cross pollinated You can actually sue your neighbors and/or these companies for geneflow into your heirloom crops. There has never been a recorded lawsuit where a farmer has been sued for unintentional gene flow. Only intentional patent infringement. >(thanks GE). People have been patenting crops for over 100 years. Nobody cared until GMO's came along...

This is exactly why I despise the "urban legend" about Monsanto suing the poor, tiny farmer because their Round-Up resistant seeds blew into his crop. The actual story (much like the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit) makes a lot more sense when you learn that the farmer not only knew that their seeds were Monsanto's but then used Round-Up on all his other crops so that they would die and only the resistant crops were le…

I still see a problem with this. If GM crops are capable of being wind blown how does his activity differ at all from someone trying to naturally select for crops with herbicide resistance?

Any farmer trying to select for a plant with resistance could accidentally end up reproducing a "patented" plant.

I think there's a fundamental problem with patenting things that are self replicating. Given enough time a superior GMO plant could take over a field all by itself with no intervention... Is the land owner/farmer really to blame if this happens?

A related problem is that it's difficult/impossible to tell if you're growing a patented seed without expensive tests. As long as the plants are virtually indistinguishable patent enforcement should not be allowed.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#25

Post by anotheryou » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

I like the story of the artificial banana flavour to be like the old tasteful bananas there where. I guess it's not true, but the story of the banana is simmilar to the fate of the tomato, if not worse, because banas have no seeds, are all clones and the old kind of banana got mostly wiped by some fungi.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#26

Post by skykooler » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

anotheryou wrote: post #25

I like the story of the artificial banana flavour to be like the old tasteful bananas there where. I guess it's not true, but the story of the banana is simmilar to the fate of the tomato, if not worse, because banas have no seeds, are all clones and the old kind of banana got mostly wiped by some fungi.

And there is a new breed of the same fungus that is attacking the modern banana - the Cavendish - and as of yet, there is no replacement banana that we can substitute if the Cavendish gets wiped out.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#27

Post by 4ad » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

pbosko wrote: post #19

You should try importing tomatoes from Eastern Europe. They are still very tasty over here. :)

I was born in Romania, visited there less than two weeks ago, and now I am in the United States. This is simply not true at all. Tomatoes in Romania taste exactly the same as tomatoes in the United States (e.g. bland).

Even tomatoes bought from farmer's market are not much better because they don't use the tastiest varieties of tomatoes.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#28

Post by bluGill » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

throwawaydbfif wrote: post #24

dkonofalski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why I despise the "urban legend" about Monsanto suing the poor, tiny farmer because their Round-Up resistant seeds blew into his crop. The actual story (much like the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit) makes a lot more sense when you learn that the farmer not only knew that their seeds were Monsanto's but then used Round-Up on all his other crops so that they would die and only the resistant crops were le…

I still see a problem with this. If GM crops are capable of being wind blown how does his activity differ at all from someone trying to naturally select for crops with herbicide resistance? Any farmer trying to select for a plant with resistance could accidentally end up reproducing a "patented" plant. I think there's a fundamental problem with patenting things that are self replicating. Given enough time a superior…

What are the odds that any of the farmers seeds from before the windblown cross fertilization were roundup resistant? Essentially zero, so I have no sympathy for him. If he had not sprayed roundup and some of his seeds got the roundup traits and others did not I would have sympathy for him if he was sued for the mix bag where some seeds had the roundup traits.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#29

Post by akiselev » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:11 PM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #16

corybrown wrote: post #2

> In the tasting panels, there were noticeable differences in preferences: between men and women, between foodies and nonfoodies, and, perhaps most interesting, between older people and younger people. He recalled one of the students working in his laboratory picking out the supermarket tomato as her favorite in one of the taste tests. People like what they know. But I'm guessing repeated exposure could end up shifti…

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a very objective way to test this kind of thing. We know, based on all kinds of testing done in the past, that our tastebuds react more sensitively to tastes that we don't know to protect us from potentially eating foods that are poisonous or rotten. It's the reason why you have to develop a taste for things like bleu cheese and cilantro and why they taste bitter or strong at first. We're…

Do you have any citations? This all sounds so obvious and logical but so do most other theories in evolutionary psychology and biology. I don't think we have enough evidence to make such strong claims.

I developed a taste for spicy food after years of avoiding it like the plague for digestive reasons but only found out after I had a strong craving for Indian food and accidentally got something really spicy. I also can't bring myself to order tortas because I ate one too soon after getting really sick from tacos. Reading the word "tortas" makes me feel nauseous but "tacos" does not and I can eat both without any negative response (once the food is in front of me). These examples are orthogonal to yours but I think they're illustrative of just how complex the interactions are. I don't doubt the adaptations you mentioned are there, just how prelevant they are in a modern agricultural society.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#30

Post by bluGill » Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 9:13 PM UTC

quickben wrote: post #5

There is something wrong with the food industry. When I was growing up, they taught us that we eat veggies because when they are fully mature, all the nutrients are there and good for us. Somehow, they found out how to make them look ready but still not ripe. And now they found out how to screw the taste to taste better. So they will look and taste good, but the nutritive value will be questionable. Waste of research…

You seem to be mistaking organic for ripe nutritious food. Organic just limits some specific chemicals. That is it. You can replaces those limited chemicals with other "natural" chemicals which may be (and often are) much more harmful.

Organic does not save the earth. Sometimes is does, but other times it is more harmful than the conventional practice.

Organic is not more nutritious. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is less (because the farmer cannot replace the nutrients last year's crop took out)

Organic is not fresher or better tasting. Sometimes it is, but that is not a reflection on organic, it is a reflection on conventional farmers not finding it worthwhile to sell fresher.