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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#281

Post by pluma »

fpig wrote: post #205
pluma wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One minor nitpick: in social media the criticism generally applies mostly to mere statements, especially statements of support or outrage over any given emotionally loaded issue. Attending a protest or donating to charity is relatively risky and expensive in comparison to just feigning outrage, retweeting slogans or changing your avatar.

Yeah virtue signaling is mostly a Facebook/Twitter thing.

YouTube too. Just pick any Sargon of Akkad video at random, it's almost guaranteed to be about either "virtue signalling", "moral busybodies" (i.e. the people mostly engaging in virtue signalling) or "cultural Marxism".

Re: Make America Hate Again

#282

Post by derrickdirge »

jazzyk wrote: post #272
derrickdirge wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's not what 'actually happened'. A single young man with a sordid past and complicated relationship with the gay community claimed allegiance to Islamists immediately prior to massacring dozens of people at a gay-centric dance club.

According to Wikipedia, no credible evidence for the "self-hating, closeted gay" narrative has been found by the FBI. The killer was upset about the US presence in Iraq/Syria and had been preparing the attack for some time, possibly helped by his wife (arrested and charged with helping him). Both were Muslims. Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shootin... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/16/…

But of course it's not that simple.

From the wiki:

>Mateen's ex-wife, however, claimed that his father called him gay while in her presence. Speaking on her behalf, her current fiancé said that she, his family, and others believed he was gay, and that "the FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media"

Re: Make America Hate Again

#283

Post by yongjik »

jazzyk wrote: post #245
CaptainZapp wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. I totally disagree. How else do you want to describe the contents (and spirit) of this executive order? I think getting into mealy mouthed wiesel words and euphemisms for something that's clearly hateful and bigote…

You know that Obama de facto stopped - or at least severely limited - Iraqi immigration for 6 months in 2011. There was no outright ban, but the flow of Iraqis slowed significantly. Would you call it a hateful act as well?

Using Obama's "Iraq refugees ban" to justify Trump's action was a weak argument anyway, but the time window for the argument's viability has passed hours ago.

Now you will have to find out cases when Obama ordered government officers to ignore court order.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/customs-bord...

> Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump’s travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#284

Post by andriesm »

Can't wait for this Virtue Signaling circle-jerk to be over.

STOP BELIEVING MEDIA LIES. Instead of reading second hand sources, why not ACTUALLY READ what Trump said in his own words, 17 hours ago, right here:

“America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion to those fleeing oppression, but we will do so while protecting our own citizens and border. America has always been the land of the free and home of the brave. We will keep it free and keep it safe, as the media knows, but refuses to say. My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror. To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over 40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by this order. We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days. I have tremendous feeling for the people involved in this horrific humanitarian crisis in Syria. My first priority will always be to protect and serve our country, but as President I will find ways to help all those who are suffering.”

d- Donald J. Trump - 17 hours ago.

source: https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158567643610725

Re: Make America Hate Again

#285

Post by derrickdirge »

reitanqild wrote: post #280
derrickdirge wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being willfully obtuse. The points the parent was making were not reliant on a concrete shared definition of 'racism.' Do you want to be part of a discussion, or do you just want the rush of endorphins that contrarianism provides?

I don't think yummyfajitas is. I don't like Trump but I still agree that racist is now used as a general slur.

You're still missing the point the parent was making.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#286

Post by hevel »

mikeash wrote: post #265
hevel wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtue signaling is a specific application of a major idea in game theory and economics. It is not abstract like "hate." See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaling_game

That's very interesting but irrelevant. People aren't using the term as a reference to game theory, they're using it as a cowardly way to say "You don't actually believe what you're saying."

When people are using this term, they are often implying that the ones signalling are trying to send false information to others. By signaling virtue they will be treated like a virtuous person even when they are immoral. The implication is that people virtue signalling are conscious that they don't believe what they say, but still say it for the sake of gain.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#287

Post by yongjik »

losteverything wrote: post #269
beat wrote: post #210

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court orders. Legislators are going to airports to see that travelers arriving in their district and being detained are allowed access to counsel, and they're not allowed to meet with the detainees. This is a constitutional crisis. This is not about the right or wrong…

I have faith our process will "manage" this. But I find myself VERY upset reading your comment as well as many other reactions to exe. order How much more can I take? I see signs "whatever it takes to remove trump" that has so much negativity behind it. "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. This is quite unhealthy for me. I compare it to second hand smoke before the surgeon generals report.

> "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up.

I'll reserve such a statement until (God forbid) some Democrat governor supports conversion therapy for Trump supporters.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#288

Post by jazzyk »

yongjik wrote: post #283
jazzyk wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that Obama de facto stopped - or at least severely limited - Iraqi immigration for 6 months in 2011. There was no outright ban, but the flow of Iraqis slowed significantly. Would you call it a hateful act as well?

Using Obama's "Iraq refugees ban" to justify Trump's action was a weak argument anyway, but the time window for the argument's viability has passed hours ago. Now you will have to find out cases when Obama ordered government officers to ignore court order. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/customs-bord... > Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald T…

"Using Obama's "Iraq refugees ban" to justify Trump's action was a weak argument anyway"

Instead of providing supporting argument for your above statement, you conveniently change the subject to another, only loosely related matter.

Whataboutism at its best :-)

Re: Make America Hate Again

#289

Post by Corristowolf »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #206
Corristowolf wrote: post #56

Obama was the one who implemented the visa ban for 7 islamic countries. Trump is just continuing the policy and added a LGBTQ clause. The left is blowing this out of proportion, just because it's Trump. They had no problem with airstrikes everyday that Obama was in office. I wish the press could be more objective. Every country has a right to deny access to people from other countries. Same with all the islamic middl…

It's true that many on "the left" / "the media" were going to freak out even if Trump did exactly the same thing as Obama. But this fact is distracting many honest and sincere conservatives from the more disturbing fact that Trump did not do the same thing as Obama, but in fact did way more in a very reckless manner. (Besides, if it was the same thing Obama did, it wouldn't have required an executive order.) Stopping…

There is an exemption for people who are already in the states. That was just shitty organization.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#290

Post by Corristowolf »

mikeash wrote: post #251
mst wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green card holders are being exempted, that was shitshow disorganisation rather than policy. This policy is still not the same though, no. The previous administration only suspended Iraqi refugee processing for ~6 months. The thing I'm mostly annoyed about is people claiming "only the new administration would pick this list of countries" when they inherited the list. I'd much rather we focused on how much worse thing…

It was policy. Then that policy was loosened. The loosening is rather vague and still leaves a lot of room for trouble, so it remains to be seen just what the practical effects are. Now they "will be allowed to board U.S. bound aircraft and will be assessed for exceptions at arrival ports of entry." I totally agree that focusing on the list itself is silly. It's a good example of why Trump should have divested his bu…

And this policy is also for 90days.
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