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Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#111

Post by imron »

nodamage wrote: post #102
misja111 wrote: post #91

I'm a bit amazed by the panic here on HN about the blocked Visa's. I mean, I do agree that the initiative is retarded, but it's not like under Obama residents from Iran or Sudan could get in an out of the USA whenever they wanted. In my last job in the Netherlands I had an Iranian colleague who tried for seven years in a row to get a Visum to go to the USA, without success. The situation was already very difficult un…

The uproar is not about blocked visas.

That's right, surely the uproar is about all the bombing and killing that the US has been doing in 5 of the 7 countries listed on the visa ban list.

I mean human lives are worth more than visas right? And if that bombing had never happened, we wouldn't have the humanitarian crisis that led to so many refugees coming from those countries.

Well, at least that's what I wish more people were concerned about, but where were the protests when the Nobel peace prize winning president was doing those things? It was met largely with silence, and definitely not large scale protests.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#112

Post by camus2 »

msie wrote: post #74
twsted wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kidding? Ref please?

There's this show about the Canadian border services and they regularly go through people's phones: 'Border Security'

And computers too, some French guy was caught with "anime porn" on his hard drive at the border, went to prison for a few month.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#113

Post by igravious »

lkrubner wrote: post #60
onion2k wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a compelling line of reasoning if Jethro Tull had actually invented the seed drill, but he didn't. He perfected the design but the device had been around Europe for 150 years before Tull's version, and in China for 2000 years before that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_drill

The same argument applies even more strongly. If a technology is known, but fails to come into widespread use until there is a legal system that protects people from persecution, then the new legal system clearly played a large role in emancipating that technology from obscurity. Do I need to list every example? I was assuming they were well known. Consider what France lost by driving out the Huguenots. Consider what…

> Do I need to list every example? I was assuming they were well known.

That's not an argument, that's snark. I agree with onion2k that you do not provide a compelling line of reasoning. You provide a just-so narrative but not a line of reasoning. Sure those events may have happened in chronological order but that does not in any way imply causation.

Innovation and invention have both preceded and post-dated any notionally enlightened legal landscape.

Also, the dire situation for Catholics and the existence of discriminatory laws on the books within the British Isles puts paid to Voltaire's chummy story of a motley crew worshipping before the altar of Mammon, likewise the Bill of Rights.

You paint a good picture but I remain unconvinced.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#114

Post by igravious »

lkrubner wrote: post #68
adrianN wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not very convinced by your argument. I don't see how the rule of law affected Tull. I think it's more important that he was influenced by the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment and sought more efficient means of agriculture using the scientific method. Also, the Wikipedia says that the seed drill was known in Europe for about a hundred years before Tull refined it and it took another one hundred…

You assume the outcome when you write "the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment". Why didn't the Enlightenment happen in Italy? Why was Galileo arrested whereas Newton became a national hero? The regime of human rights was very different in Italy versus England, and that influenced where the Enlightenment happened. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake, whereas Edmond Halley had the liberty needed to…

Why didn't the Enlightenment happen in Italy?

The Enlightenment did happen in Italy.

> Why was Galileo arrested whereas Newton became a national hero?

Because of the Jesuits, and not for the reason you imply. Read Infinitesimal by Alexander Amir.

Galileo was a national hero in Italy, in fact he was an enormous figure across the whole of Europe. Giodarno Bruno was burned at the stake in Rome in 1600, Edward Wightman (for heresy) in jolly olde England in 1612.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#115

Post by pessimizer »

kika wrote: post #11

The part about an initiative to look up visitors phones and social media is BS. This measure was introduced in June last year when the president wasn't Trump. Went into effect in December, when Trump already won but had no authority. One random link from google: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-soci...

Virtually all of what Trump is being called out on has been consistent bipartisan policy, or at the least supported consistently by recent Republican administrations and by every Republican primary candidate, all of whom were openly racist, xenophobic and anti-science. I think it's a good thing. Finally an ugly, stupid face on ugly, stupid policies.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#116

Post by FabHK »

I think one good criterion (among others) for deciding in what country to hold a conference is the number of countries whose citizen can enter without visa. There's a list on Wikipedia that you can sort by that criterion [1].

For the USA, it's 42 (what else). Canada, 52. For Schengen area (most of EU), 92. Hong Kong, 148, Indonesia, Cambodia even more. China only 12.

So, South East Asia or Europe seem reasonable on that score.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa#Visa_policies

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#117

Post by pessimizer »

imron wrote: post #111
nodamage wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uproar is not about blocked visas.

That's right, surely the uproar is about all the bombing and killing that the US has been doing in 5 of the 7 countries listed on the visa ban list. I mean human lives are worth more than visas right? And if that bombing had never happened, we wouldn't have the humanitarian crisis that led to so many refugees coming from those countries. Well, at least that's what I wish more people were concerned about, but where we…

Clearly because the bombing didn't negatively affect the type of people that middle-class professionals know. In fact, quite the opposite; the profits made from selling weapons to the US government to bomb everywhere, or to the Saudis to bomb Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world, or to various dictators to pacify their own populations, those profits provide that middle-class professional lifestyle for many.

And often, our middle-class friends from other countries are actually connected to those dictatorial regimes, because those regimes choose who gets to be middle-class in those countries.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#118

Post by kefka »

pessimizer wrote: post #115
kika wrote: post #11

The part about an initiative to look up visitors phones and social media is BS. This measure was introduced in June last year when the president wasn't Trump. Went into effect in December, when Trump already won but had no authority. One random link from google: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-soci...

Virtually all of what Trump is being called out on has been consistent bipartisan policy, or at the least supported consistently by recent Republican administrations and by every Republican primary candidate, all of whom were openly racist, xenophobic and anti-science. I think it's a good thing. Finally an ugly, stupid face on ugly, stupid policies.

I'd go further than that. Given trump's recent actions regarding immigration ban, and INS/ICE going against federal judges, it seems like he's testing for a coup.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...

Congress, which is majority republicans, are doing little to stop him. Democrats are still skittering, unsure what to do or how to regroup. And if judges are being ignored, it leaves the Executive branch pretty wide open. After all, they are the ones who control the military. Congress just OK's the budget.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#119

Post by wodenokoto »

kika wrote: post #11

The part about an initiative to look up visitors phones and social media is BS. This measure was introduced in June last year when the president wasn't Trump. Went into effect in December, when Trump already won but had no authority. One random link from google: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/foreign-travelers-soci...

It would only be bullshit if it wasn't an actual measure. It still counts as a con when considering the US for an international conference.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#120

Post by themgt »

pessimizer wrote: post #117
imron wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, surely the uproar is about all the bombing and killing that the US has been doing in 5 of the 7 countries listed on the visa ban list. I mean human lives are worth more than visas right? And if that bombing had never happened, we wouldn't have the humanitarian crisis that led to so many refugees coming from those countries. Well, at least that's what I wish more people were concerned about, but where we…

Clearly because the bombing didn't negatively affect the type of people that middle-class professionals know. In fact, quite the opposite; the profits made from selling weapons to the US government to bomb everywhere, or to the Saudis to bomb Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world, or to various dictators to pacify their own populations, those profits provide that middle-class professional lifestyle for man…

Ding ding, there's the cynical and at least partly correct answer - Obama bombing poor Muslims while acting like it's a pained #LesserEvil choice was a-OK with liberals: shrug & grimace and let's go back to a craft beer at Moral HighGround Cafe. Trump gleefully doing a 90 day transit suspension on Ivy-league/Silicon Valley Muslim PhDs?! A Hitlerian crime against humanity!

Don't get me wrong, I think this order, especially applied to LPRs, is crap. But having been deported from a country before for what I considered an unjust cause, I'll take that over being drone bombed to death any day of the week. And yes your average citizen of Yemen likely already had a better chance having a US (via Saudi) weapon dropped on their head than being granted a visa.

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