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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#221

Post by rj0049 »

threeseed wrote: post #74
rosser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this garbage every time this comes up. "Mom and pop shops". Yes, those exist, but they're the minority. You're generally either dealing with EnterpriseDB, or you're dealing with a company that is run by people who are significant contributors to the project — literally, on the core committee — or have people who have created meaningful parts of the PostgreSQL ecosystem. You need to drop this FUD. I will never…

I say this "garbage" because in my opinion it's true. EnterpriseDB has according to LinkedIn between 200-500 people mostly located in AMR and EMEA based on experience with their APAC division. They simply are NOT a top tier support company on par with Oracle, Teradata, SAP etc. I am based in APAC and so my opinion is going to be far different than other parts of the globe. And the difference with DataStax, MongoDB et…

There's a leading DB vendor (at least according to Gartner) which will give you enterprise support if you run MySQL or PostgreSQL.

AWS.

While multi-master replication is still not there (it's still just a synchronous standby and read slaves) all of the heavy lifting is done for you.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#222

Post by aNoob7000 »

edblarney wrote: post #215
aNoob7000 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will be investigating likes of Microsoft, IBM, and even Amazon. As an example, I can't stop the CIO and board at my company from talking about the cloud because of all the consultants and sales guys talking to the C suite. You want to see something really oversold right now look no further than the cloud.

'Wining and dining' is very common, but it's not necessarily considered 'corruption' because a meal is well, just a meal, after all. The occasional tickets etc. are just a 'gift' not ostensibly supposed to interfere with the purchasing decision. Of course they do on some level. But it's a fine line. It's crazy how many CEO's will let purchasing decision makers be taken on these things and junkets, I would just not al…

I never said the "wining and dining" was illegal or corrupt. I just think it is a easy way to get decision makers to push the people under them to look at technologies that may or may not apply.

In the case of the cloud, I agree that there's a future for it. But I think in the future people are going to look around and notice that it cost a lot of money to run everything in the cloud and on-premise is going to start looking good again.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#223

Post by rj0049 »

toyg wrote: post #6

This is a plain attack on Amazon, which Oracle now sees as a competitor, that will hit customers in the crossfire. I guess Oracle expects customers will simply move to Azure, since retooling ops might be easier than rebuilding solutions on other databases. It will yet again hurt their image though; they've been hated by geeks for ages, but they are increasingly unpopular even among executives. How long can you do bus…

Azure has always been charged at "1 core = 1 Oracle Processor" so this new scheme only harmonizes licensing on Azure and AWS. It's still double of on-premise pricing.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#224

Post by brianwawok »

koolba wrote: post #212
brianwawok wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until someone switches a table name from lowercase to uppercase and the hand rolled optimizer stops working?

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

This happened to me in prod with Oracle. Lost a critical optimization in prod because my case of a table changed from upper to lower.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#225

Post by Bombthecat »

bane wrote: post #184

One of the projects I'm working on is suffering from many of the ills that come with using Oracle on a project. At first we built the entire stack using PostgreSQL (like most sane projects should), but when it came time to deliver to the customer, they had not yet chosen to allow it as an approved software component and suggested we move to Oracle -- that was over a year ago. We've fought every kind of licensing issu…

Similar just exchange postgre with MySQL.... For a fucking simple CMS! Not even Mission critical! But they demand oracle..

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#226

Post by stickfigure »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #220
bane wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Keeping in mind that we literally had nobody who'd ever used Oracle in their careers (or at least beyond fairly basic uses a decade ago)...we had a fairly simple set of tables, one of which had a CLOB attribute. Every single export option available in Oracle SQL Developer truncated the CLOB field whenever it felt like, and half of the exported formats were exported without escaping content in th…

Based on your reply, you had a bad consultant and you used the wrong tool to load the data. Dealing with CLOB/BLOB fields can be a hassle sometimes but that shouldn't kill a project. Both Datapump and SQL-loader could have both been options. This brings me to one of my pet peeves, programmers tend to trash databases because most of them don't understand how they internally work. If you ask most corporate developers t…

There's a phrase to describe things that require you to understand how they internally work: leaky abstraction.

It sounded like you were trying to defend the Oracle product here, but it actually comes across as a sort of indictment.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#227

Post by PhantomGremlin »

technion wrote: post #63
raverbashing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers need to learn how to stand their ground

Let me read you a specification I got for a project a while back: Build and implement an Intranet system based on Oracle That was the start, and finish of the spec we got. Question about what sort of information the intranet stores? Here's your answer: As long as it uses Oracle Standing your ground where Oracle is involved usually just means quitting. Not every engineer has that luxury.

If that were the extent of the "specification" I got, and I couldn't get any additional information, then ...

Yes, I'd quit. Period. End of discussion. I couldn't work at a company that operated that way.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#228

Post by dpb001 »

brianwawok wrote: post #224
koolba wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

This happened to me in prod with Oracle. Lost a critical optimization in prod because my case of a table changed from upper to lower.

If you changed the case of a table name, this means you had to change whatever was generating the SQL since mixed or lower case requires table or column names to be surrounded by double quotes.

So, you changed code and didn't test it. Yup, definitely Oracle's fault.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#229

Post by hardwaresofton »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #189
hardwaresofton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so the one point you've brought up is the query optimizer... do you have any data to back this up? a comparison between query speeds for trivial & non-trivial data sets/queries? Could you put into words a little bit more of what the Oracle DB does that Maria/MySQL/Postgres could not?

I hate when people ask for "data to back it up". Just google it for yourself. This is a forum, not every post needs to be a peer-reviewed scientific paper. If you don't believe the OP then go ahead, but getting him/her to jump through hoops to try to prove a point is dumb.

While I understand your point, I think that where HN falls on this spectrum is precisely why HN is valuable (and what keeps it from becoming just another reddit clone).

You're absolutely right in that the OP has no obligation to 'jump through hoops' to prove their point (and again they are free to not reply), but people on HN generally don't make claims without at least some citation/proof, and that's why (to me, and I'm sure others) HN is valuable. Everyone has opinions. The expectation on HN is usually of reasoned discourse, and fact-driven analysis (where applicable)... While this is a minor inconvenience for posters/community members, it does a whole lot to solidify HN as a worthwhile place for people who care about that kind of thing to hang out.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#230

Post by bane »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #220
bane wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Keeping in mind that we literally had nobody who'd ever used Oracle in their careers (or at least beyond fairly basic uses a decade ago)...we had a fairly simple set of tables, one of which had a CLOB attribute. Every single export option available in Oracle SQL Developer truncated the CLOB field whenever it felt like, and half of the exported formats were exported without escaping content in th…

Based on your reply, you had a bad consultant and you used the wrong tool to load the data. Dealing with CLOB/BLOB fields can be a hassle sometimes but that shouldn't kill a project. Both Datapump and SQL-loader could have both been options. This brings me to one of my pet peeves, programmers tend to trash databases because most of them don't understand how they internally work. If you ask most corporate developers t…

The real problem is that there's something like a dozen different ways to import/export data and all of them do something just a little bit different, even when their accessed via pretty much the same interface. Datapump didn't work because there was a minor version mismatch between two of the dBs, something like a single letter in the version. We weren't using any features at all that distinguished our use of one dB over the other, so the data should have migrated smoothly.

SQLLDR threw up a bunch of index and constraint errors that magically went away when we just copy pasted in the INSERT statements into the GUI tool. Why? Who knows, but we didn't want to spend another $400/hr figuring it out.

CLOBs shouldn't be some magical type that's impossible to serialize and deserialize. There's nothing particularly tricky about serialized text in almost any other technology context, except in magical Oracle-land where all the tools are broken and you can measure how many dollars each row of data is costing you.

We weren't doing anything particularly exotic, or sexy, just very very vanilla relational dB 101 stuff, and Oracle has managed to turn that into expert-level wizard secrets. It doesn't matter how Oracle internally works, if we have to know, especially for these kinds of simple use-cases. If you have to know, you may as well just write what you need yourself instead of relying on a tool.

I agree with stickfigure, defenses of this garbage end up becoming an indictment of it.

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