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Another programming interview I blew

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Re: Another programming interview I blew

#61

Post by ktRolster »

D_Alex wrote: post #25
ktRolster wrote: post #21

I should have been a dentist I would have gotten more respect and maybe more love I have had similar thoughts.

I shudder at the thought of being a dentist. Imagine your first day on the job, looking into people's mouths all day... then going home and thinking that this is what you will do every working day for the next 40 years. Dentists, I heard, have high rates of substance abuse, depression and suicide. These are very talented people (they have to be to gain admission to dentistry), who have to spend their life... doing de…

The way it is now, I mostly write code that will be ripped out in a few years, if not months. At least being a dentist I could be sure that every day, I would go to work, and help someone.

In the computer industry you have to screen out companies that don't help people.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#62

Post by pavanred »

eat_brains wrote: post #30
cylim wrote: post #10

show me your Github profile or your learning blog, you need to build a personal brand as a developer... :)

The idea of github and a blog are the cancers of the industry. Both are so easy to fake that they are hardly worth the space they take up to link on a resume -- however, recruiters don't seem to have discovered this fact yet.

Isn't a new thing, is it? There have always been new ways to test/differentiate candidates, but soon candidates identify the advantage and prepare for the test instead of actually becoming better at what they do. The scores of "Interview questions" books and websites are the evidence of this.

This is perhaps just the next thing, setup a blog and a bunch of repos on github, and if that makes the recruiter think you a better candidate, I am sure shortly everyone will do it, if they aren't already.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#63

Post by ktRolster »

_b36s wrote: post #55

I graduated quite a while ago with a CS degree, and am still searching for my first entry level position. I have been asked the most ridiculous questions in phone screens and on-sites. "What is your SAT score?" "Why did you choose your university over a better ranked one?" "Tell us about how you used connection strings." (is a CS grad really supposed to know this) "Do you volunteer teaching kids how to code on your o…

I'm honestly scared of all these job posts I see that require experience in a dozen different frameworks. It's getting harder every day.

Don't worry about it too much, just focus on improving your interview skill and you'll get it. When I first graduated, it took me a year to figure out the hiring/interview process, failing everywhere. Then once I figured it out, I suddenly had plenty of offers. You'll do the same.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#64

Post by mesid »

NTDF9 wrote: post #54
rosser wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The false negative/false positive question is more about the costs of hiring a "bad" engineer than how hard it is to find a "good" one. I've been in that situation: Once, at an old job, I had put in for a new role that had been created. There was also an outside candidate who'd applied for the role. Management felt that having me interview this candidate would have been a conflict of interest, considering, so I wasn'…

>> The false negative/false positive question is more about the costs of hiring a "bad" engineer than how hard it is to find a "good" one. I'm familiar with the argument. Erring on the side of caution is wise. Thinking that the current interview process saves you from this is stupid. Gameable systems are won by people who focus on the game. They are not necessarily going to do well if the job requires something diffe…

>> Gameable systems are won by people who focus on the game. They are not necessarily going to do well if the job requires something different >> The current interview process is a GAME.

Exactly what I've been thinking about recently.

Isn't this true for a variety of things? The education system judging on the outcome of exam scores, elections, making money, marketing etc.

I wonder whether all this can be really be 'fixed'.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#65

Post by scorpioxy »

pavanred wrote: post #62
eat_brains wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of github and a blog are the cancers of the industry. Both are so easy to fake that they are hardly worth the space they take up to link on a resume -- however, recruiters don't seem to have discovered this fact yet.

Isn't a new thing, is it? There have always been new ways to test/differentiate candidates, but soon candidates identify the advantage and prepare for the test instead of actually becoming better at what they do. The scores of "Interview questions" books and websites are the evidence of this. This is perhaps just the next thing, setup a blog and a bunch of repos on github, and if that makes the recruiter think you a…

A blog, perhaps. But a github profile?

What's the point behind publishing code to prove that you actually can code if no one is going to look at it?

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#66

Post by [deleted] »

lj3 wrote: post #32
scorpioxy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is why Starfighters was being made; because the system is broken. Too bad it didn't work out(not the CTF or stock game; the idea). I wish there was a site where, in my own time, I can do some tasks to prove that I can actually do what I've been doing for the past 15 years. As in, "here I reversed a string and this is proof. now can we please discuss something relevant to the role or am I being hired to…

But then the interviewer trots out the old adage "but we're not testing your ability to reverse strings. I want to see how you approach solving problems." And yet, a wrong answer is an almost guaranteed no hire. I can't tell if these people believe their own bullshit or if I'm being lied to my face.

[deleted]

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#67

Post by greenrover »

ktRolster wrote: post #63
_b36s wrote: post #55

I graduated quite a while ago with a CS degree, and am still searching for my first entry level position. I have been asked the most ridiculous questions in phone screens and on-sites. "What is your SAT score?" "Why did you choose your university over a better ranked one?" "Tell us about how you used connection strings." (is a CS grad really supposed to know this) "Do you volunteer teaching kids how to code on your o…

I'm honestly scared of all these job posts I see that require experience in a dozen different frameworks. It's getting harder every day. Don't worry about it too much, just focus on improving your interview skill and you'll get it. When I first graduated, it took me a year to figure out the hiring/interview process, failing everywhere. Then once I figured it out, I suddenly had plenty of offers. You'll do the same.

It's the crazy companies that are hard to figure out. Don't seem excited working there for 10+ years? Auto-rejection. The last on-site I was able to pass, at a startup, but then they changed it into a contract at the end. Full time promised, etc. Last week came. Oops, nevermind about that full time, and we can't extend the contract.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#68

Post by nojvek »

I've taken a lot of shitty interviews. I have also interviewed many devs.

Testing a candidate in one hour is really hard.

CV's can be very deceiving. What I look for is folks who are good coders and good communicators. I don't care about culture fit. Our team is diverse from 50 year Olds, 19 year Olds, males females, black, white, brown etc.

Having a github profile with interesting projects is a boon. Even better if you've contributed to some meaningful open-source projects. This is great because it gives lots of data. The issues you file, the commits, comments and code give good insights about you. Much more than a one page CV.

I use the same question on every candidate and evaluate them.

I allow my candidates to use google/Bing, chrome console, whatever resources they would usually use in day to day work.

I look for understanding of basic data structures like maps, sets and techniques like recursion. I also give a ton of hints to guide in the right path. I can only help though if the the candidate wants help. Some candidates really don't get the hints even after multiple repeats.

Some candidates just dive into code and then get stuck. They confuse them selves.

The best candidates are the ones who ask lots of clarifications at the start, they break down the problem into little pieces without writing a single line of code. They emulate a computer and trace the steps in an abstract manner. They think like "to solve Z, I need A then do B and C and D." They then slowly write code for the little steps.

I love candidates who can give me a deep dive into a subject they are an expert on. I get to learn a ton on random things. Also gives insight on what makes them tick.

Don't give up. Please keep on trying. Feel free to PM me for any help. I really want you to succeed.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#69

Post by nojvek »

arenaninja wrote: post #44

It may be stressful, but I would not sweat it. In my experience, the only way to get better at interviews is to do more interviews. Then the random questions start becoming more common. I interviewed a guy once who was trying to talk his way into a VP-level position. Except he was talking to me, and I was just a hired hand suited only to make a recommendation for a n additional developer. The guy had a sound mind but…

As a full stack dev, I write recursive stuff all the time. It's a very effective technique.

I do agree though? A lot of interview questions are trick questions.

Re: Another programming interview I blew

#70

Post by kamaal »

lj3 wrote: post #32
scorpioxy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is why Starfighters was being made; because the system is broken. Too bad it didn't work out(not the CTF or stock game; the idea). I wish there was a site where, in my own time, I can do some tasks to prove that I can actually do what I've been doing for the past 15 years. As in, "here I reversed a string and this is proof. now can we please discuss something relevant to the role or am I being hired to…

But then the interviewer trots out the old adage "but we're not testing your ability to reverse strings. I want to see how you approach solving problems." And yet, a wrong answer is an almost guaranteed no hire. I can't tell if these people believe their own bullshit or if I'm being lied to my face.

"I want to see how you approach solving problems"- Is almost always bullshit.

One person I knew at work had a question he used to always ask in interviews. One day while discussing this I asked him to show me some working code for his question. He struggles for a while then gives up(Note, this is his own question). Then he repeats the same trite - "We are just testing their approach".

And I was like "Oh sure, Their approach towards something whose answer you don't even know, to evaluate against."

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