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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#191

Post by craigvn »

bane wrote: post #184

One of the projects I'm working on is suffering from many of the ills that come with using Oracle on a project. At first we built the entire stack using PostgreSQL (like most sane projects should), but when it came time to deliver to the customer, they had not yet chosen to allow it as an approved software component and suggested we move to Oracle -- that was over a year ago. We've fought every kind of licensing issu…

Oracle is shit, but sounds like you should have used it from the start if the client didn't approve PostgreSQL.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#192

Post by jpgvm »

user5994461 wrote: post #130
jpgvm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience using Oracle is throwing performance out the window. It's not uncommon to have 40+ machines running an Oracle product that struggles to support 1-2k concurrent users. For instance the Oracle Identity Manager, which is glorified LDAP was deployed on about that number of boxes at a previous company I worked at. It took over a year to implement and they still only used the LDAP functionality. In the end…

I don't know about the Oracle identity suite but I'd like to say that OpenLDAP is a ridiculous joke. (Just like the MySQL/PostgreSQL vs Oracle DB debate at times). The only scalable LDAP server is the one from Sun Microsystem (openDS). It was killed when Oracle acquired Sun because they already had identity products. Then the sun guys quit to continue the products line under their own company, ForgeRock. https://forg…

OpenLDAP can also handle millions of accounts, is open-source, supports awesome replication and availability topologies and doesn't require any consultants or otherwise bullshit dependencies/support contracts.

I'm sorry but there isn't a commercial product that can compete with OpenLDAP and there may never be because it is just that good if you know how to use it. (yes, the learning curve is high, that is the only criticism I really have of OpenLDAP).

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#193

Post by bane »

craigvn wrote: post #191
bane wrote: post #184

One of the projects I'm working on is suffering from many of the ills that come with using Oracle on a project. At first we built the entire stack using PostgreSQL (like most sane projects should), but when it came time to deliver to the customer, they had not yet chosen to allow it as an approved software component and suggested we move to Oracle -- that was over a year ago. We've fought every kind of licensing issu…

Oracle is shit, but sounds like you should have used it from the start if the client didn't approve PostgreSQL.

It honestly never occurred to anybody to check. It's such a rock solid standard tool the notion that it wouldn't be approved and Oracle would be for some vague handwavy "security" policy reasons was not a notion that anybody entertained, not even the client PM, until we got to deployment.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#194

Post by chris_wot »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #189
hardwaresofton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so the one point you've brought up is the query optimizer... do you have any data to back this up? a comparison between query speeds for trivial & non-trivial data sets/queries? Could you put into words a little bit more of what the Oracle DB does that Maria/MySQL/Postgres could not?

I hate when people ask for "data to back it up". Just google it for yourself. This is a forum, not every post needs to be a peer-reviewed scientific paper. If you don't believe the OP then go ahead, but getting him/her to jump through hoops to try to prove a point is dumb.

In this case, there is literally no data to back up the assertion because Oracle don't allow it.

However, as the creator of [citation needed], I'd just like to say: if you want to say something in a forum, and it seems wrong, then I for one welcome data that backs up the assertion. Why should we take any one on face value?

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#195

Post by kpil »

pjmlp wrote: post #87
gumaflux wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until external forces turn these monoliths into heavy liabilities and block adaptability. Another important factor is today's engineers are tomorrows architects.

They still have to answer to the managers. Also in the enterprise space code changes are measured in dollars/euro/yan/... per hour, not engineer happiness.

Eh, that's true just about everywhere... Code = Money.

You spend some money, get new and hopefully better code, and with some luck you will get a return on the investment, ie more money than you spent on doing it.

Unless you are doing it for fun. Or don't know what to do with all the money you have.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#196

Post by user5994461 »

SteveNuts wrote: post #161
user5994461 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Oracle identity suite but I'd like to say that OpenLDAP is a ridiculous joke. (Just like the MySQL/PostgreSQL vs Oracle DB debate at times). The only scalable LDAP server is the one from Sun Microsystem (openDS). It was killed when Oracle acquired Sun because they already had identity products. Then the sun guys quit to continue the products line under their own company, ForgeRock. https://forg…

What do you think about Red Hat's IDM/FreeIPA

Don't know. Didn't try it.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#197

Post by ashayh »

mailslot wrote: post #60

Oracle is worth every penny that they charge. Unless you've worked with it, you won't understand the love / hate relationship toward it. Yes. It costs money. Why? Because it does so many things that nothing else comes close to. Its query optimizer is insane. MySQL is a toy and PostgreSQL, while admirable, remains in a lower class. I say this as a supporter and contributor to open source databases. Like the open sourc…

No application, especially enterprise applications can have all business logic in the DB. It is spread out over huge, _multiple_ application code bases & even shell scripts and ad-hoc jobs.

So it doesn't matter how "good" the DB is. If the App & presentation layers are so bad, that they introduce logical or other anomalies every so often, does it matter if the DB does not produce any error in a billion years?

The Porsche analogy is cute. But if the business case could be solved by 10 scooters, isn't it be better & cheaper? When your "Porsche" is down, all customers are affected. With 5 scooters down, only 50% can be (if you design it that way).

In many of these so called "enterprise" applications, what they _needed_ was 10-20 scooters, but they bought 2-3 Porsches. And it's usually because "no one gets fired for buying IBM". In many internal apps, companies literally are putting Wordpress like shitty CRUD CMS on Oracle because of this mentality.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#198

Post by user5994461 »

jpgvm wrote: post #192
user5994461 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Oracle identity suite but I'd like to say that OpenLDAP is a ridiculous joke. (Just like the MySQL/PostgreSQL vs Oracle DB debate at times). The only scalable LDAP server is the one from Sun Microsystem (openDS). It was killed when Oracle acquired Sun because they already had identity products. Then the sun guys quit to continue the products line under their own company, ForgeRock. https://forg…

OpenLDAP can also handle millions of accounts, is open-source, supports awesome replication and availability topologies and doesn't require any consultants or otherwise bullshit dependencies/support contracts. I'm sorry but there isn't a commercial product that can compete with OpenLDAP and there may never be because it is just that good if you know how to use it. (yes, the learning curve is high, that is the only cr…

Here's a little known fact for you: OpenLDAP is a commercial software made by a company called symas. https://symas.com/

The open-source edition is only a facade with highly stripped features.

If you want any decent replication, HA, performances or bugfix. You have to pay for their OpenLDAP gold edition, which last I checked was $100k for a site license.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#199

Post by geodel »

edblarney wrote: post #181
geodel wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years back it would be very interesting proposition. But today a lot of modern cloud infrastructure is getting written in Go. IBM/SAP/Apple betting on Swift for server side applications. So in past it could have been Swift app + Java backend now it is more likely Swift app + Swift backend. I also think with Rust taken up by programing enthusiasts which otherwise would have prefered Scala on JVM is also going to put…

"But today a lot of modern cloud infrastructure is getting written in Go" I don't think so. I our circles, we think 'Go' is a thing, but in most of the world, it's not. Rust, Go, these are all popular with new companies. Enterprises are so often .Net/Java + Oracle etc.. It's a big world of hospitals, large companies, government agencies etc..

Yes, enterprise apps are not yet there. But lot of infra-like software would have been written in Java if Go were not there. There is growing awareness of Go at big enterprises such as where I work.

It will start with sucking oxygen for new projects which would be by default in Java.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#200

Post by user5994461 »

Dangeranger wrote: post #190
user5994461 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Oracle was the only SQL DB able to shard. (might still be) - Oracle was the only database able to take multi GB or TB of data in a single table/DB. (Old MySQL/Postgre had various limitations like X GB per table for a long time, they still do). If you worked in the DB in the 200X years, Oracle was the standard and for good reasons. MySQL/Postgre were considered like toys, for good reasons.

We are not making the comparison 10 years ago, we are making it now. What real features does Oracle have that MySQL/Maria/PostgreSQL do not have now.

Short version: Nothing changed in 10 years :D
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