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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#171

Post by rodgerd »

webreac wrote: post #48

I think that a key explanation of Oracle success is that the complexity of their database administration has created a generation of full time jobs: DBA. These people are like salesman working for Oracle to defend the future of their job. They are well paid, but this cost nothing to Oracle. At the opposite, Oracle can sell training.

The Exa* pitch complicates that, though. I've dealt with Oracle DBAs who were rabid to get their hands on Exa* units so they could "get rid of the sysadmins." They cooled their jets when they heard a big part of the Exa* pitch is reducing reliance on DBAs, as well.

Oracle's in an awkward place. They want to get to the new world of cloud and appliance without burning down the old world, while preserving their profitability, and that's quite hard.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#172

Post by Helmet »

raverbashing wrote: post #57
bb101 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm this. Oracle goes out of their way to make senior and upper-mid management feel like rockstars. All expenses paid meetings in attractive overseas destinations, start to finish hand holding on multi-million dollar engagements, regular contact and personal attention. Management swoon and sign the cheques. And why wouldn't they? After all, it's only the company's money, not theirs personally.

It will be fun if Oracle is investigated relating this practices

Why? This is basically how the business world operates. There is nothing wrong with a private business wining and dining a potential client to swoon and sell them something.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#173

Post by chris_wot »

giis wrote: post #131
sllabres wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert in Oracle DB licensing. Could you explain?

I'm not expert in licensing too. I've friends who said, when they needed enterprise support for Oracle DB running on Redhat, directly/indirectly the message they received is to migrate from Redhat linux to Oracle linux. I think that quite clear by some kind of 'cold-war' going on between Redhat & Oracle. http://fossforce.com/2016/03/microsoft-oracle-oracle-tried-r...

The very fact that you must be an "expert" in licensing really says everything you need to know about Oracle licenses.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#174

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

[deleted]

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#175

Post by chris_wot »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #124
cstejerean wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Oracle license prohibits people from publishing performance benchmarks of Oracle against other databases. Or at least that's what I remember.

Welp, that's dissapointing, but it gives me a solid reason to never ever trust the claim that Oracle is "just better" than anything else. Claims without proof should hold very little weight with any critical mind. I'm totally open to the idea that Oracle is better in at least some ways (surely their engineers aren't just twiddling their thumbs all day), but I need to see it proven. So far the features that oracle had…

That query optimiser is in many ways amazing, but it's mostly undocumented and the behaviour changes from version to version of the database.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#176

Post by cneumuel »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #144
tlogan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some reasons (things I used in past): - ASM - DataGuard - FlashBack Query - RAC - PL/SQL (the worst language ever but very useful for building packages inside database) - Window Functions - Transparent Data Encryption - online reorg - RMAN and online backup Oracle as a company is terrible. But Oracle RDBMS is a mean machine. Do not underestimate it.

> PL/SQL (the worst language ever but very useful for building packages inside database) I've heard that "in the database" sentence many times but never got it. PL/SQL is just another programming language VM that happens to have SQL types as native types, and syntax for SQL cursors. Other than for triggers and possibly indexed deterministic functions (both of which are inessential/questionable), you don't want your c…

There are several unit testing frameworks for PL/SQL. Code in the database encapsulates business logic, it gives you unified access from all clients. It can also be orders of magnitude faster. The presentation linked here

https://thehelsinkideclaration.blogspot.co.at/2016/09/noplsq...

proves that with flame graphs for a simple workload done from the app server vs. implemented in PL/SQL.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#177

Post by itaysk »

echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I agree with the sentiment, but they do make fantastic acquisitions though. of course Sun with Java, MySQL, and VirtualBox, also Dyn, Ravello, Addthis, Crosswire just to name a few

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#178

Post by justinjlynn »

mjw1007 wrote: post #58
rosser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this garbage every time this comes up. "Mom and pop shops". Yes, those exist, but they're the minority. You're generally either dealing with EnterpriseDB, or you're dealing with a company that is run by people who are significant contributors to the project — literally, on the core committee — or have people who have created meaningful parts of the PostgreSQL ecosystem. You need to drop this FUD. I will never…

In discussions like this, I often hear people say companies choose Oracle because they'd have "someone to sue" if things go wrong. Did your employer attempt to recover the money from Oracle? If not, did they even consider doing so?

If they actually did consider it, legal would probably make them unconsider it. That is, after laughing in such a way as to give the C*O the impression someone has just walked on their grave.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#179

Post by devonkim »

amzans wrote: post #136
elorant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

You are totally correct about how change is slow in enterprise, and this favors Oracle tremendously. But I don't think you realize the extent of Google's ubiquitousness. Innovation is a survival strategy, and between the companies you mentioned, Oracle comes last in that front.

Google's lack of a rich enterprise cultural workforce consisting of account managers paired with a culture of sales and services for profits makes a great deal of enterprises nervous since this is how they're structured for business for several decades. This is where Google's partners that are more versed in such traditional, engineer-hostile come in, but then you wind up where massive companies start to rely upon maybe 1000-person companies that will be crushed by the onslaught of horrifically mundane, non-scalable problems endemic to a customerbase consisting of non-technical people and sub-par engineering talent as standard. These companies know that they can't use these smaller companies and are not run by stupid people (usually), so they have really little choice among technology vendors that make most of the HN crowd cringe.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#180

Post by edblarney »

echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

"How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company?"

A long time. They are making tons of money.

Devs may not like them, but most devs don't care.

Devs are usually not the one's footing the bill.

Oracle makes a decent product, they will force big-corp ABC to pay for it.

I don't like them, but I don't think this is going to hurt their business.

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