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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#161

Post by SteveNuts »

user5994461 wrote: post #130
jpgvm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience using Oracle is throwing performance out the window. It's not uncommon to have 40+ machines running an Oracle product that struggles to support 1-2k concurrent users. For instance the Oracle Identity Manager, which is glorified LDAP was deployed on about that number of boxes at a previous company I worked at. It took over a year to implement and they still only used the LDAP functionality. In the end…

I don't know about the Oracle identity suite but I'd like to say that OpenLDAP is a ridiculous joke. (Just like the MySQL/PostgreSQL vs Oracle DB debate at times). The only scalable LDAP server is the one from Sun Microsystem (openDS). It was killed when Oracle acquired Sun because they already had identity products. Then the sun guys quit to continue the products line under their own company, ForgeRock. https://forg…

What do you think about Red Hat's IDM/FreeIPA

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#163

Post by geodel »

jpalomaki wrote: post #29

Years ago Oracle would have been in a quite nice position to put up interesting cloud offering. Something like Java platform as a service, bundled with the message queues, database etc. Not targeted just to enterprises, but similar to AWS and Azure in the sense that you can get started small. They had quite much interesting related technology from Sun and BEA (and of course from themselves). And maybe this would stil…

5 years back it would be very interesting proposition. But today a lot of modern cloud infrastructure is getting written in Go. IBM/SAP/Apple betting on Swift for server side applications. So in past it could have been Swift app + Java backend now it is more likely Swift app + Swift backend.

I also think with Rust taken up by programing enthusiasts which otherwise would have prefered Scala on JVM is also going to put pressure on Java/JVM.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#164

Post by pgaddict »

philipov wrote: post #127
pgaddict wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the companies are unlikely to rework the current code from Oracle to PostgreSQL (or some other database), but they'll definitely think twice when starting new stuff.

When managers start a new project, they don't want to think twice. They want to grab the ass of someone else in the company who's already done the same thing and leverage their expertise to reduce the cost of the project. My company is still stuck using CVS because when a new project starts up, they want to use the people who are already locked into the old tech and so they end up going with what people already know.…

It's always a cost/benefit evaluation. When the costs stay roughly constant, the outcome is usually to use the same stuff as for previous projects. But when the vendor significantly increases the costs, like Oracle does in the recent past, that may have significant impact. It may be easier/cheaper to switch to a different database, for example.

I'm not saying all companies will end up doing that, but some certainly will (and already do). They may not be vocal about it, though, because they don't want to piss Oracle.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#165

Post by rodgerd »

syshum wrote: post #99
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I think you may be underestimating the need for a public company to grow in order to survive in its current form. Relentlessly squeezing existing customers that have no way out will only get you so far.

Worked for Microsoft for Decades, They also found a new way to apply that same model with 0365 and their continual effort to add new features that only cost a "few dollars more per user per month" Squeezing locked in customers is the Enterprise Software way... all of them do it.

> Worked for Microsoft for Decades,

Even at their most dominant, Microsoft kept adding things customers wanted. AD was a big leap forward for customers, when Microsoft could have rested on the domain model. SQL Server kept adding capabilities, Exchange, etc.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#166

Post by mavelikara »

echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

> They burned all bridges with engineers long ago

But those engineers retire, new ones without memory of Oracle's past take their place, and all will be forgotten.

Remember how Microsoft was the company many engineers hated when the Halloween Documents [1] came out? Yet, they have managed to patch up that relationship since 1998.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#167

Post by kjw »

threeseed wrote: post #61
vonklaus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future for Oracle is much more promising that[sic] it is for Google or Apple. That is a bold statement. Google has ~1/3 of the world who have access to the internet as regular users. Apple is a hardware maker with a very desirable array of products. I won't say I am a fan of Oracle, and I agree with you on how the lifecycle of enterprise adoption works, but that is a very far fetched conclusion. First, large co…

The internet is pretty fickle though. I still remember when people switched from Altavista to Google and from MySpace to Facebook. It didn't take all that long and look at those old companies now. Whilst Oracle has done absolutely nothing the last few years other than crappy, me-too products they do have a LOT of luck on their side. Why ? Because nobody is touching the EDW (enterprise data warehouse) space. There are…

re: EDW - Snowflake Computing? AWS RedShift? Google BigQuery?

https://gigaom.com/report/sector-roadmap-cloud-analytic-data...

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#168

Post by rodgerd »

chenster wrote: post #45
elorant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

> corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. That said, IBM DB2 is very much in the same boat.

DB2 is a bit of a different kettle of fish for a few reasons:

* DB2 rolls new features in at their top pricing tier, then trickles them down. So things you could only get in the top tier in 9.5 (for example) are now available in Workgroup edition in 11. Oracle keeps very old features (e.g. partitioning and encryption) as expensive add-ons.

* DB2 is still pushing out new features. PureScale has (for example) moved from parity with RAC (clustering in one datacentre) to well beyond it (metro clusting across a region).

* DB2 respects pretty much any VM technology for sub-capacity licensing. Oracle pretty much require you buy OVM.

Top-tier DB2 and a fully loaded Oracle DB are pretty similar pricing (depending on the specific deals you can obtain from your account manager), but DB2 keeps moving, and many of the features you might care about can be had in much cheaper editions.

The problems DB2 face are mindshare (easier to find DBAs for Oracle, many people still think of DB2 as a "mainframe thing"), and there's still quite a few "enterprise" apps that only support Oracle DBs.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#169

Post by boulos »

frugalmail wrote: post #162
golfer wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shocked by this too.. Boggles the mind that this would even exist.

Think of the morons that have based their career on attaining the latest certification in their chosen application.

Your comment would be just as useful if you did s/morons/people/. You can highlight that it's awfully risky to pigeonhole yourself into corporate certifications, but calling people moronic isn't civil.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#170

Post by chris_wot »

koolba wrote: post #153
JackMorgan wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my new boss laughed when we complained about Oracle. He adamantly insists it was the best database in the world. He also knows only one database.

It is a fantastic database. Best is a subjective term but for a MVCC translational workload it's amazing. Note that I'm talking specifically about the database itself, not the cluster fuck of end user software built atop it (ex: Oracle Financials).

Ever tried to tune it via their CBO? Then do a major release upgrade?
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