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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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141–150 of 241 posts

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#141
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing consumers facing products( Altavista, MySpace ) with corporate facing customers. The corporations have invested 10s of million or more developing products based on Oracle products. Changing from Oracle to PostgresSQL is possibly many years of work and multiple projects for a large company.

And potentially a lot of fuck ups along the way. Don't forget that the average CRUD developper in a corporation is usually not a PhD from MIT.

Speaking as an enterprise CRUD developer wage-slave, if you need a PhD from MIT to figure out how to migrate from Oracle to a sane database like Postgres or SQL Server, you probably should work in a different field or at least a different project.

More realistically, it's department politics that are going to prevent any sort of migration.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#142
post #101
post #48

I think that a key explanation of Oracle success is that the complexity of their database administration has created a generation of full time jobs: DBA. These people are like salesman working for Oracle to defend the future of their job. They are well paid, but this cost nothing to Oracle. At the opposite, Oracle can sell training.

Most of these jobs are offshored now, so it's not as relevant a factor as you think. What is relevant is the amount of business applications and solutions built on the database, that took years to develop and would cost a fortune to replace.

DBA jobs haven't been entirely offshore'd. It happens in cycles.

* Offshore to save money. Databases are a car, just follow the script / maintenance manual and everything will be okay right?

* Discover the awful quality, security, never-ending cycle of bodies, lack of retention of information, zero innovation, frustrated staff having to try to deal with them, and and most of all costs which creep up (a lot like Oracle licensing).

* Insource to qualified internal staff and retain knowledge, save money, and fix all the problems the outsourced company wouldn't.

* Now that everything is fixed, create work manuals, and offshore again. This will get out of date over time, servers will get replaced, new software comes along, and things go to pot again. Repeat.

To be fair, companies also often institute long and complex policies which stifle any kind of remediation an offshore staffer would do - because they can't. Internal employees learn the system, how to get things done, and they do it.

I work for a team that has taken over from multiple offshore companies in this way. We find all of these things and worse, really just the most awfully maintained systems around - no backups, no maintenance, no organisation, nothing. They don't even patch but they say they do! And they've paid millions (and tens of millions) for the privilege!

There's really no comparison so don't mistake the two for a second. As for automation - well - tools have made it so that one DBA can "manage" hundreds of servers at once if they're standardised in certain ways. But you'd be surprised at how many things can go wrong and how few can be automated, especially when the rest of the companies don't have proper automation infrastructure in place. Large enterprises are still fiefdoms of managers who want local employees and to retain their own jobs.

Performance tuning and improvements though are extremely time consuming. You can, for some projects, focus entirely on single digit servers for years at a time if they're important enough.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#143
post #3

Is support the only reason people choose Oracle databases over something free like MySQL or Postgres?

You don't choose Oracle databases. You choose Oracle products and services that use Oracle databases. If you visit their website and hover over the products and solutions tabs you'll see a ton of boring mission critical applications that most startups will never touch.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#144
post #18
post #3

Is support the only reason people choose Oracle databases over something free like MySQL or Postgres?

Here are some reasons (things I used in past): - ASM - DataGuard - FlashBack Query - RAC - PL/SQL (the worst language ever but very useful for building packages inside database) - Window Functions - Transparent Data Encryption - online reorg - RMAN and online backup Oracle as a company is terrible. But Oracle RDBMS is a mean machine. Do not underestimate it.

> PL/SQL (the worst language ever but very useful for building packages inside database)

I've heard that "in the database" sentence many times but never got it. PL/SQL is just another programming language VM that happens to have SQL types as native types, and syntax for SQL cursors.

Other than for triggers and possibly indexed deterministic functions (both of which are inessential/questionable), you don't want your code "in the database" due to it lacking basic capabilities such as unit testing.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#145
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's "current", and what's your benchmark? Mine is video encoding using FFMPEG (where I run more program threads than FFMPEG decides is optimal in order to make sure no cpu thread is idle). I get at most 15% over hyperthreading off, and often about 5-10% less than hyperthreading off (For the whole process, beginning to end). On real cores, it is close to being linear in the number of cores (not quite, but it is clo…

As I understand HT, in it's most basic form it will try to utilize all processing units by executing code from a second thread whenever possible. FFMPG most likely maxes out usage of all arithmetic and floating point units and limits branching to a minimum, so it would make sense that there are no real performance gains with HT.

Of course. The question is, what is the kind of load in which it delivers 80% over a non HT core, as the GP claims? I've certainly never seen this kind of load.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#146
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision to use Oracle is often not by engineers.

Little Correction: not by the average web engineer.

This is a very true statement.

I laugh at how the only thing discussed here is open source software and the cloud. People forget that there's a whole entire world of enterprise software and systems.

As someone else mentioned earlier, mid to large size companies don't replace systems like people do here with Javascript frameworks. It is really expensive and costly to replace systems that have been around for decades. The business logic tied up in some of these systems is so vast and complex that it is cheaper to keep them around than to replace them with something new.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#147
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being around isn't the same as growth though, and being around doesn't necessarily mean to run your own IT infrastructure either.

I find this modern fixation on growth MBA's have forced upon the business world to be facinating Use to Stability, and Profitability not growth was important. Stability, and Profitability were the goal, growth followed but was not in itself a goal Now even if you are profitable, if you are not seeing growth then you failed. It is ridiculous.

I don't disagree in general, but Oracle is a tech company and technology has a particular function in our society that wasn't invented by MBAs.

The role of technology is to drive productivity growth, which is ultimately the only thing that improves living standards (or at least has the potential to do so).

A pizza sold in 1987 is just as useful as a pizza sold in 2017 measured by its nutritional value. But the same is not true of technologies from 1987.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please could they all retrain for Postgres!

Oracle DBA here. Oracle Database 10g through 12c have provided me with a steady income for 6+ years, but enough is enough. It's a solid, powerful product, but Oracle's behavior over the years has been so ridiculous, so abusive, so damaging to open source. . . I've had enough. Am doing exactly what you suggest. All of my personal projects now run Postgres.

Importantly, there's finally enough high-paying work in Postgres to support DBAs like yourself.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#149
post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

Since reputation of Google here is it shuts down projects/products. Do you mean Google buy Java/MySQL and shut them down? I do not see any other reason to buy either of those considering they can and are using Java and MySQL as and when they need.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#150
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this modern fixation on growth MBA's have forced upon the business world to be facinating Use to Stability, and Profitability not growth was important. Stability, and Profitability were the goal, growth followed but was not in itself a goal Now even if you are profitable, if you are not seeing growth then you failed. It is ridiculous.

I don't disagree in general, but Oracle is a tech company and technology has a particular function in our society that wasn't invented by MBAs. The role of technology is to drive productivity growth, which is ultimately the only thing that improves living standards (or at least has the potential to do so). A pizza sold in 1987 is just as useful as a pizza sold in 2017 measured by its nutritional value. But the same i…

I'd argue for the Oracle growth drivers, things are much better than 1987, but only marginally better than 1999.

These mega vendors drive co-dependency, not innovation.

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