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Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com

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Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#201

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

chris_st wrote: post #11
oasisbob wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glowforge marketed their laser cutter as a 3D laser printer, didn't they? As someone waiting for their Glowforge to ship, I really hope their device wasn't involved in all this.

From Glowforge's website, for their base model: > It needs ventilation via the provided 4″ diameter (10.2cm) hose. We recommend putting the hose out a window.

I think the bigger issues is that these kinds of DIY maker tools are marketed as in-home. You wouldn't put a band saw in your spare bedroom-why do people use these kinds of tools in a normal house/apartment? Though two engineers living in Berkeley are probably not going to have a garage, alas.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#202

Post by mark-r »

JshWright wrote: post #105
pmoriarty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What CO detectors would you recommend?

Any off the shelf product should be fine (there are standards they have to meet). Kiddie and First Alert are both well regarded brands. I use First Alert personally (they have model with Z-Wave integration that ties into my home automation system). We carry a few Kiddie smoke/CO detectors on the fire truck to install if we notice a home doesn't have one (or if the one they had failed).

Surprisingly those standards won't allow low levels to be displayed, so that emergency centers don't get too many non-emergency calls.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#203

Post by pixelbill »

agumonkey wrote: post #200
pixelbill wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? Yes, CO is similar to air's molar mass (it's actually slightly lower), meaning it will diffuse evenly through the vertical space in the room. The concentrations at the ceiling will be the same as the concentrations on the floor. Stop spreading misinformation.

But if sources are at human head level, by the time it reaches the ceiling, you already inhaled a fair amount of CO ? what did I get wrong ?

Nope.

Diffusion of gasses in the air is an extremely rapid process. In a minute the concentration would be the same throughout the room.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#204

Post by kuschku »

danieltillett wrote: post #96
pmoriarty wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd start with digging up the material safety data sheets (MSDS)[1] for all the compounds you're working with, and reading over those. I'd also search around for books and papers on electronics safety. It's really amazing just how little electricity is required to stop a human heart, if the conditions are right. The same goes for chemical safety. College level textbooks on these subjects tend to at least give a decen…

The trouble with MSDS is that the lawyers have got to them and they all end saying the same thing (look at the one for salt [1]) and so people become blasé about the really dangerous risks. When I was an academic I had huge problems with students working with the truely dangerous chemicals in an unsafe manner because they couldn't tell the difference. I had to run little informal classes with my students where I woul…

> Do not ingest.

> In case of Skin Contact: Wash with soap and water. Cover the irritated skin with an emollient. Get medical attention if irritation develops. Cold water may be used

Okay, you’re right, these are overly alarming.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#205

Post by agumonkey »

pixelbill wrote: post #203
agumonkey wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if sources are at human head level, by the time it reaches the ceiling, you already inhaled a fair amount of CO ? what did I get wrong ?

Nope. Diffusion of gasses in the air is an extremely rapid process. In a minute the concentration would be the same throughout the room.

Aight

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#206

Post by pmarreck »

verelo wrote: post #119
stcredzero wrote: post #18

CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…

I recently started getting very interested in air quality in my house. I decided to take a similar approach to air quality that I do with the stock market: lots of small, well distribute bets whenever possible. For context, our house is 3 levels with a furnace in the basement (cold climate; Canada) I ended up with 3 different brand of CO detectors, 2 different brands of smoke detectors and 1 radon detector. By far th…

Oh jesus. I'm currently renovating 2 bathrooms at once and ceramic dust is coating pretty much everything else not secured. I didn't even know about VOC's until now. I may have to invest in a detector

EDIT: I ended up ordering a Foobot after doing some homework

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#207

Post by Naritai »

That's tough. Operating any sort of industrial equipment gets dangerous very fast; I know a plaintiff attorney who handles cases like this (injury due to improper exhaust), and the fact that it's actually an area of practice tells you something.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#208

Post by amluto »

pmoriarty wrote: post #48
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omega is one company I would trust for this myself; they sell for industrial applications, not homes, and have a good reputation when it comes to sensors. A CO monitor will set you back $235. http://www.omega.com/pptst/AQM-103.html

Is there any way to know that an expensive CO detector like this is worth getting for home use, instead of one costing 10x less?

A CO "monitor" is permitted to alert at low levels of CO (10-20 ppm). A UL-listed code compliant CO alarm may not. I personally think this is silly.

There are a few companies that sell low level CO monitors for residential use. They're all somewhat pricey.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#209

Post by allenrabinovich »

allenrabinovich wrote: post #101

Hi folks. Val and Roger were dear friends, and I am on the ground here, and I'd like to respectfully ask that you refrain from speculation. The press is rushing to print sensational items, and they don't know the actual facts. I've been talking to the police directly, and nothing is conclusive yet. Nothing has actually been ruled out, nor determined to be the cause. They don't even have full toxicology reports yet, t…

Thank you all for your condolences. If you would like to honor Val and Roger's memory in the future, please stay tuned to announcements on http://fb.me/valandroger. We are hoping to establish an MIT scholarship in their names, and continue work on Roger's unfinished video game.

To answer some of the questions in this thread all at once:

1. The unit was about 900 square feet. Looks like someone calculated roughly that from the publicly available information.

2. The laser cutter itself was a very small device. I don't remember the exact size, but the cutting bed wasn't more than 2 by 2 feet, and likely smaller than that.

3. Most importantly, from what the investigators told us, the laser cutter bed was completely empty and it wasn't running when they found it. The same goes for the 3D printer.

Friends here on the ground have their ideas based on what we know about the apartment, and we have made suggestions to the investigators. We are hoping they do due diligence. While I'd like to tell you more, we are trying to avoid all speculation. We know it's stressful, but please hang in there.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#210

Post by pmoriarty »

nether wrote: post #114
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omega is one company I would trust for this myself; they sell for industrial applications, not homes, and have a good reputation when it comes to sensors. A CO monitor will set you back $235. http://www.omega.com/pptst/AQM-103.html

Are there any that work in temperatures below freezing? I'm living in my car and using a propane heater when it gets cold.

Wow. That is definitely a recipe for carbon monoxide poisoning. I encourage you to find some other way to survive, because it's unlikely you'll survive long doing that.
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