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The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

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41–50 of 122 posts

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#41

Political censorship cleverly wrapped in a much more palatable package delivered to you for your acceptance.

The original theories of free speech included basically no censorship on the theory that the marketplace of ideas (along with backlash for non-anonymous awful statements) would lead us in the direction of the truth, or at least stability.

It appears that the anonymity of the Internet combined with the echo chamber effect has pretty much completely ruined that.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#42

Are there any projects working to automate the identification of offensive material with Machine Vision or Machine Learning? Replacing these peoples' jobs with computers might actually be a humane act.

Yes, there are a lot. For example, NCMEC maintains databases of child porn hashes using photodna and other things. Machine learning and other algorithms are used to identify images that end up in this database (and others). Sadly, teaching machines what exploitation looks like is hard and it's not as simple as "identify things that have explicit sexual activity" and then "filter those things by people who appear to b…

The cost of false negatives in this area is so painfully high too.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#43

Instead of inflicting PTSD on content moderators, why not give the job to someone who actually wants to see this type of content? They must exist, otherwise the content wouldn't spread in the first place. And/or crowdsource it so that more people are spending less time doing it? Viewing a little bit of this content is probably less traumatic than viewing it for 40 hours a week. Of course I realize it'd probably be a…

If I recall correctly, one strategy for preventing relapses is to avoid children. Using convicted pedophiles might be counterproductive for some.

It's like a recovering alcoholic taking a job at a liquor store. Not a good plan.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#44

The internet is a voluntary vice used by some to earn a living. It's not food, shelter, clothing AND the internet. Staying away from the internet is the next health craze.

Couldn't agree more. It is more like we need to protect humanity from the internet.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#45
post #22

The title is an instance where automatically substituting 'humanity' for 'mankind' leads to a contradiction in terms: humanity is the quality of being humane, or benevolence, and there's nothing bad or malevolent about it.

>humanity is the quality of being humane, or benevolence

That's one definition; my dictionary also lists "the human race; mankind; people."

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#46
post #38

Dare I guess that these people generally get paid minimum wage? > Tech companies don’t like to talk about the details of content moderation, so it’s difficult to judge how well they’re caring for the psychological health of moderators. The number of such stories which include said companies declining comment (not this one, but anecdotally that's how it seems to be) is kind of a red flag though.

"Often, the moderators are workers in developing countries, like the Philippines or India" It looks like those two countries do have a legal minimum wage [1], although it's pretty low - $0.28 for India, $0.61 for the Phillipines. No idea whether those numbers reflect living wages for those countries though, or what a content moderator might actually earn. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/a-look-at-minimum-wages-aro…

If $.28 is really the minimum wage in India, then so much starts to make sense. No wonder that wild incompetence is the order of the day. I couldn't hire a kid to mow my lawn at that rate.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#47
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would dare say nothing of worth being done stop child abuse anywhere in world would compounds the effect of being exposed.

Child advocacy groups are exasperated. The tactics that have been shown to actually help kids aren't sexy enough for law enforcement or politicians. Busting actual abusers is one bust, and its almost always of a parent or other close relative of the victim. Whereas they can get dozens of people trading pictures online in one fell swoop, and the public tends to treat that as just as useful, but research shows it just…

Education and empowerment would be great, but why should cops be doing it? If DARE has taught us anything, it's that cops are really bad at education. Also it's a fairly privileged point of view that assumes any particular child would want to talk to police about anything. This seems more like a job for teachers and child advocates.

That is, if they can get past the PC "parents first and foremost" BS. First and foremost is stepparents and mom's boyfriends. Actual parents are a distant second, and even then is often a case of "divorced dad lost all custody rights so resorted to kidnapping in order to see children". Concentrating on the wrong thing is just as bad for advocates as it is for police.

You mention children fearing the foster system. I don't think awful foster stories are being traded at kindergarten recess, but it's true that foster care should only be contemplated in the most extreme circumstances. If child advocates are advocating for just turning up the knob on enforcement, and destroying families for such flimsy causes as corporal punishment or parental marijuana enjoyment, they're abandoning that requirement of extremity. In that case, I wonder for whom they're actually advocating, because it sure as hell ain't the children.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#48
post #27

Instead of inflicting PTSD on content moderators, why not give the job to someone who actually wants to see this type of content? They must exist, otherwise the content wouldn't spread in the first place. And/or crowdsource it so that more people are spending less time doing it? Viewing a little bit of this content is probably less traumatic than viewing it for 40 hours a week. Of course I realize it'd probably be a…

>For instance, why not offer convicted pedophiles jobs which involve screening out child porn? That would save an innocent person from the trauma involved and it might even allow the pedophile to feel like he was redeeming himself to some degree by saving others from viewing that material. Or just allow the pedophile to indulge in his paraphilia. I'm really not comfortable with this...

At some point it will be possible to create very realistic CP without using children. Actually it might already be possible to do that. One would have thought that would solve most of the problem: create "artificial" CP with strict controls to ensure children are not involved, and let the weirdos watch as much as they want. (Admittedly, there would still probably be some super-weirdos who would be totally turned off by seeing the "Attestation of No Children Involved" message at the beginning of their CP...)

But this comment seems to imply that there would be a problem with that? What is the harm in movies that harm no one?

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#49
post #6

Are there any projects working to automate the identification of offensive material with Machine Vision or Machine Learning? Replacing these peoples' jobs with computers might actually be a humane act.

I really wish there was. I did forensics for a couple years, working with the police force to access and/or recover incriminating evidence. I really, really wish that a machine could replace a person in that circumstance. And to a certain extent, it is possible. One of the really unfortunate parts of the process, is to know a video is incriminating, someone at some point has to see that video. It was part of my job t…

I'm sorry anyone has to see stuff like that, but there is no way in hell machines can be allowed to start "confirming" such things without several people having to review it.

Re: The Human Toll of Protecting the Internet from the Worst of Humanity

#50
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would dare say nothing of worth being done stop child abuse anywhere in world would compounds the effect of being exposed.

Child advocacy groups are exasperated. The tactics that have been shown to actually help kids aren't sexy enough for law enforcement or politicians. Busting actual abusers is one bust, and its almost always of a parent or other close relative of the victim. Whereas they can get dozens of people trading pictures online in one fell swoop, and the public tends to treat that as just as useful, but research shows it just…

> And empowerment - telling them that their body is their own property and no one, not even their parents, has the right to make them do anything they don't want to - goes against the narrative people want to believe about children being incapable of making those decisions (as if they're difficult).

Not only does it go against the "comfortable narrative", it goes against the law. Children are systematically disempowered (often for their own good) until they reach arbitrary magical ages. Minimum driving age, Minimum drinking age, Age of consent, Compulsory school attendance, etc, etc. The idea that children have little agency and few rights is enshrined in law, so it's no wonder they feel powerless when they're abused.

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