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Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

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Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#71

Post by mschuster91 »

jsiepkes wrote: post #68
mailslot wrote: post #60

Oracle is worth every penny that they charge. Unless you've worked with it, you won't understand the love / hate relationship toward it. Yes. It costs money. Why? Because it does so many things that nothing else comes close to. Its query optimizer is insane. MySQL is a toy and PostgreSQL, while admirable, remains in a lower class. I say this as a supporter and contributor to open source databases. Like the open sourc…

I think you are not taking into account the shift out of the DB and into the application layer. People care less and less what the DB can do. Yes large slow enterprises will continue to have a need for Oracle DB. But I've never seen anyone connect a microservice to Oracle. Why? Because you dont need that much complexity when you only have a collection of "simple" services. Everyone who needs Oracle deserves Oracle.

> But I've never seen anyone connect a microservice to Oracle.

As a matter of fact, I did so multiple times in order to provide simple JSON APIs which consume data from massively huge enterprise software and expose them to nice shiny web apps. Can't name any more details though, but it works - at least if you use PHP, but I believe there's also an Oracle DB driver for nodejs, and most certainly for Java/JDBC.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#72

Post by keketi »

cstejerean wrote: post #69
hardwaresofton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so the one point you've brought up is the query optimizer... do you have any data to back this up? a comparison between query speeds for trivial & non-trivial data sets/queries? Could you put into words a little bit more of what the Oracle DB does that Maria/MySQL/Postgres could not?

I think the Oracle license prohibits people from publishing performance benchmarks of Oracle against other databases. Or at least that's what I remember.

Very reassuring.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#73

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

elorant wrote: post #31
echelon wrote: post #13

How much longer do you all think Oracle will be around as a company? They burned all bridges with engineers long ago, and they're not going to be able to keep selling their blatant and expensive lock-in strategy to management. Maybe when they finally do go under Google will be able to buy Java and MySQL...

I don't think you realize how the enterprise ecosystem works. There are legacy Cobol systems scattered all around the place. Corporations stick with their platforms for decades. This isn't the web development front where we change platform every couple of years. In corporations change is slow because there are significant sums of money invested in people and procedures. You just don't change that for the next flashy…

So Oracle's future is based on those large enterprises, while the more nimble, those that will be large enterprises down the road, steer away from Oracle? Maybe Oracle realised that they won't be winning the smaller one's over and now decided to squeeze the larger ones even more.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#74

Post by threeseed »

rosser wrote: post #35
threeseed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MySQL support you can get from Oracle. PostgreSQL support is very limited. There is no vendor so you're relying on third parties many of whom are mom and pop shops. And if you're a global, multi-national well good luck finding someone who you can cut a deal with for global support. Not to mention that the support is hardly likely to be top tier.

You say this garbage every time this comes up. "Mom and pop shops". Yes, those exist, but they're the minority. You're generally either dealing with EnterpriseDB, or you're dealing with a company that is run by people who are significant contributors to the project — literally, on the core committee — or have people who have created meaningful parts of the PostgreSQL ecosystem. You need to drop this FUD. I will never…

I say this "garbage" because in my opinion it's true.

EnterpriseDB has according to LinkedIn between 200-500 people mostly located in AMR and EMEA based on experience with their APAC division. They simply are NOT a top tier support company on par with Oracle, Teradata, SAP etc. I am based in APAC and so my opinion is going to be far different than other parts of the globe.

And the difference with DataStax, MongoDB etc is that those companies are basically the open source projects. They control the steering committees, copyrights, branding etc. And so there there's a lot more confidence in being able to reach someone who actually wrote that part of the code. PostgreSQL has always been far more decentralised.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#76

Post by phonon »

threeseed wrote: post #61
vonklaus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future for Oracle is much more promising that[sic] it is for Google or Apple. That is a bold statement. Google has ~1/3 of the world who have access to the internet as regular users. Apple is a hardware maker with a very desirable array of products. I won't say I am a fan of Oracle, and I agree with you on how the lifecycle of enterprise adoption works, but that is a very far fetched conclusion. First, large co…

The internet is pretty fickle though. I still remember when people switched from Altavista to Google and from MySpace to Facebook. It didn't take all that long and look at those old companies now. Whilst Oracle has done absolutely nothing the last few years other than crappy, me-too products they do have a LOT of luck on their side. Why ? Because nobody is touching the EDW (enterprise data warehouse) space. There are…

Amazon Redshift?

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#77

Post by yxhuvud »

tlogan wrote: post #18
brad0 wrote: post #3

Is support the only reason people choose Oracle databases over something free like MySQL or Postgres?

Here are some reasons (things I used in past): - ASM - DataGuard - FlashBack Query - RAC - PL/SQL (the worst language ever but very useful for building packages inside database) - Window Functions - Transparent Data Encryption - online reorg - RMAN and online backup Oracle as a company is terrible. But Oracle RDBMS is a mean machine. Do not underestimate it.

Postgres has at the very least window functions. What do you mean by online reorg? Schema changes in a transaction that doesn't block? Yeah, postgres has that too.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#78

Post by BatFastard »

threeseed wrote: post #61
vonklaus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the future for Oracle is much more promising that[sic] it is for Google or Apple. That is a bold statement. Google has ~1/3 of the world who have access to the internet as regular users. Apple is a hardware maker with a very desirable array of products. I won't say I am a fan of Oracle, and I agree with you on how the lifecycle of enterprise adoption works, but that is a very far fetched conclusion. First, large co…

The internet is pretty fickle though. I still remember when people switched from Altavista to Google and from MySpace to Facebook. It didn't take all that long and look at those old companies now. Whilst Oracle has done absolutely nothing the last few years other than crappy, me-too products they do have a LOT of luck on their side. Why ? Because nobody is touching the EDW (enterprise data warehouse) space. There are…

You are confusing consumers facing products( Altavista, MySpace ) with corporate facing customers. The corporations have invested 10s of million or more developing products based on Oracle products. Changing from Oracle to PostgresSQL is possibly many years of work and multiple projects for a large company.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#79

Post by BatFastard »

cstejerean wrote: post #69
hardwaresofton wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so the one point you've brought up is the query optimizer... do you have any data to back this up? a comparison between query speeds for trivial & non-trivial data sets/queries? Could you put into words a little bit more of what the Oracle DB does that Maria/MySQL/Postgres could not?

I think the Oracle license prohibits people from publishing performance benchmarks of Oracle against other databases. Or at least that's what I remember.

DJT could learn from Oracle on how to manage a nation of resistant people.

Re: Oracle’s Cloud Licensing Change

#80

Post by sz4kerto »

jsiepkes wrote: post #68
mailslot wrote: post #60

Oracle is worth every penny that they charge. Unless you've worked with it, you won't understand the love / hate relationship toward it. Yes. It costs money. Why? Because it does so many things that nothing else comes close to. Its query optimizer is insane. MySQL is a toy and PostgreSQL, while admirable, remains in a lower class. I say this as a supporter and contributor to open source databases. Like the open sourc…

I think you are not taking into account the shift out of the DB and into the application layer. People care less and less what the DB can do. Yes large slow enterprises will continue to have a need for Oracle DB. But I've never seen anyone connect a microservice to Oracle. Why? Because you dont need that much complexity when you only have a collection of "simple" services. Everyone who needs Oracle deserves Oracle.

That shift is somewhat insane though. Moving data out from the DB just to do stuff in the app that could be done inside the database is throwing performance out of the window.
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