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DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

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Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#121

Post by cmurf »

ciconia wrote: post #101

I was a foreign student at UCSD during 9/11 and have witnessed the hysterical reaction of the Bush administration, the establishment of the DHS and the TSA and their ridiculous security theatre. At a time when the world is more interconnected than ever, and technology offers "the world at your fingertips", these bigots want to shut us in and make everybody hate each other. Personally, it is heartbreaking to see the s…

The entire country is not in a meltdown. There's a president and a handful of Angsthasen in a meltdown, pretty much successfully dragging their party with them, and trying to drag the country into one also.

Give it time to process. We have been through much worse. Don't write off the whole lot who do not agree with the true intent of these policies.

Now maybe some of us can stop being so naive about broken campaign promises? Obviously there are some that should not have been made, but they certainly should not have been kept. Notice the emphasis by the administration on keeping campaign promises. That is an explicit dig at all Trump voters: they are claiming you want this. You are being made complicit, even if you think you voted for other reasons.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#122

Post by solipsism »

smsm42 wrote: post #116
solipsism wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to the sentence that says they're ignoring the court order? Yes, the first one. The Department of Homeland Security will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders... The whole thing is self-contradictory. They cannot enforce all the executive orders while complying with all judicial orders. Your reading of it is one reading, don't pretend like it's the only reasonable reading. In…

> They cannot enforce all the executive orders while complying with all judicial orders Of course they can. They will enforce all the orders, except for the parts which are specifically prohibited (or otherwise instructed) by court orders. Exactly how it always happened before. > does not say they will comply with all judicial orders Of course not. They don't have to comply with all of the orders, just with those tha…

You perhaps cannot see through your motivated reasoning enough to realize you just argued exactly my point -- that the press release is unclear and subject to interpretation.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#123

Post by sdenton4 »

aerovistae wrote: post #33
Tulip68 wrote: post #22

This is not hyperbole: if this statement is accurate, a coup d'etat is in progress in which our illegitimate "President" is overriding the authority of the judicial branch and it is time for every American who still believes in our constitution and our fundamental values of equality, diversity and multiculturalism take a stand and along with every congressman, every law enforcement officer, reporter, corporation, etc…

Again, I will point out that the article linked to here says they will ALSO continue to comply with all judicial orders. Read carefully. Really, the entire statement isn't that exciting, it just says "Agency will continue to follow legal structure of government as all agencies do." Mostly it's just an attempt to reassure people that things aren't as out of hand as they seem.

Cecilia Wang, one of the to lawyers for the aclu, along with others, report that CBP is not complying with the court order. Additionally:

"@pierre: This is unbelievable. When asked by two Congressmen [who they report to] CBP agents at LAX said "Donald J Trump" and hung up."

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#124

Post by grzm »

Tulip68 wrote: post #110
tn13 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put aside petty partisan bickering and remove this fascist con-man from office immediately. All I see is the fascist partisan bickering in your post. Trump has legitimately won the election and is doing what his powers let him do. He was clear about Muslim ban before election too and people voted for him. I think we can make better arguments as to why his moronic executive orders hurt USA in a major way and perhaps…

He lost the popular vote by millions of votes. The majority of America has made it very clear they do not want this fascist to be their President and the only reason he got through is because of Russian hacking our election to try and throw our country into chaos (and boy have they ever succeeded). And don't you dare lecture me about getting "angry" over this. Why don't you learn some empathy and consider how you'd f…

He lost the popular vote by millions of votes.

True. That said, the popular vote does not matter in any sense other than showing how the country as a whole is pretty evenly divided. If the popular vote (as opposed to the Electoral College) were the deciding factor in the election, the campaigns and GOTV efforts would have been run very differently, and the result wouldn't likely look like it did.

Don't get me wrong, this is very important. The fact that the country was closely split along in an election for historically unfavorable candidates shows just how dissatisfied voters were as a whole with both candidates, and how much work we can do to find common ground—surely there is some: many (most?) people aren't single-issue voters.

(The fact that the Electoral College results and the popular vote results haven't been in agreement is definitely a problems as well, and one that should be addressed. But that's a separate issue, and not the rules the 2016 election was conducted under.)

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#125

Post by jrockway »

smsm42 wrote: post #39
jrockway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except reports are: they _aren't_ complying, and are being told not to comply. This press release is words, not actions.

"Reports are" is rather vague. Which reports are about this non-compliance, in which form they are not complying?

I had already posted this elsewhere in the thread: https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#126

Post by colechristensen »

sago wrote: post #118
colechristensen wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stay was effective only for those (essentially) who had already begun travelling to the US when the executive order was signed. So they can't deport the people they detained in the airports. This isn't anything but a minor detail and it's reasonable for the DHS to consider itself complying with the court order and implementing all of the executive action. It's just a minor difference in the people effected.

I suspect this is the angle they are going for. And, as I said, I think it unwise to read stuff into words, when actions are what counts. Just FWIW, from what I can interpret, the ruling is broader than just the people currently 'on the ground' - they were the petitioners, but the judgement was not limited to them, but to: "individuals with refugee applications approved by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services as…

Your interpretation isn't the interpretation being put forward by journalists. I am not a lawyer, but I am inclined to believe Reuters more.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-chao...

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#127

Post by cmurf »

Tulip68 wrote: post #110
tn13 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put aside petty partisan bickering and remove this fascist con-man from office immediately. All I see is the fascist partisan bickering in your post. Trump has legitimately won the election and is doing what his powers let him do. He was clear about Muslim ban before election too and people voted for him. I think we can make better arguments as to why his moronic executive orders hurt USA in a major way and perhaps…

He lost the popular vote by millions of votes. The majority of America has made it very clear they do not want this fascist to be their President and the only reason he got through is because of Russian hacking our election to try and throw our country into chaos (and boy have they ever succeeded). And don't you dare lecture me about getting "angry" over this. Why don't you learn some empathy and consider how you'd f…

Yes, and those ignorant scared and angry won an election per the rules. Sure, I hope they have buyer's (voter's) remorse. But even more I hope the 42% eligible who did not vote have some remorse and commit to participating in 2018, onward.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#128

Post by smsm42 »

solipsism wrote: post #122
smsm42 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They cannot enforce all the executive orders while complying with all judicial orders Of course they can. They will enforce all the orders, except for the parts which are specifically prohibited (or otherwise instructed) by court orders. Exactly how it always happened before. > does not say they will comply with all judicial orders Of course not. They don't have to comply with all of the orders, just with those tha…

You perhaps cannot see through your motivated reasoning enough to realize you just argued exactly my point -- that the press release is unclear and subject to interpretation.

Everything is subject to interpretation, especially if people are motivated to interpret it in a creative ways to prove their pre-existing opinion. However, one must distinguish between what the document actually says (next to nothing) and what creative interpretation can achieve (coup d'etat in DHS omg fascists). Nobody is banned from the latter, but it's still not the former and never will be.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#129

Post by smsm42 »

jrockway wrote: post #125
smsm42 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Reports are" is rather vague. Which reports are about this non-compliance, in which form they are not complying?

I had already posted this elsewhere in the thread: https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/T72eVRRHv39

This link says there are "confirmed reports" that DHS disregards the stays - namely, deports people - but does not provide any details, e.g. which person named in the stays was deported, by whom, on what grounds (e.g. people can be rejected not only on this exec order, people has been deported long before Trump), who confirmed it, etc. Even that report plainly says "I simply don't have enough information yet, and hope to update as we know more". I suggest to wait until that update before proclaiming DHS is actually refused court orders with no proof of such. I understand that if they do it it would be a big deal, that's exactly why saying it happened before we know it actually happened is wrong.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#130

Post by cmurf »

random_upvoter wrote: post #119
Tulip68 wrote: post #22

This is not hyperbole: if this statement is accurate, a coup d'etat is in progress in which our illegitimate "President" is overriding the authority of the judicial branch and it is time for every American who still believes in our constitution and our fundamental values of equality, diversity and multiculturalism take a stand and along with every congressman, every law enforcement officer, reporter, corporation, etc…

I'm sorry but this is exactly hyperbole. In a democracy you have elections, and the person who wins the election is invested with certain powers for a limited amount of time. If you want to undermine the whole game just because Trump is unpalatable to you, proceed at your own risk. You may set in motion a self-fulfilling catastrophe much worse than the worst Trump could ever do. At the very least keep in mind that ro…

Yes exactly. Nixon's approval was about 24% upon departure. It will take far more damage than this ban to get an approval rating low enough to motivate and give cover to this Congress.
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