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Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

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Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#61

Post by stryk »

JshWright wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between powder and black-tar heroin?

Black-tar is, as the name implies, a black (or very dark brown) compound, generally pretty sticky (though it can be dried into a powder). White powder heroin is, as the name implies, a white powder. Fentanyl is a white or yellowish powder. For a variety of reasons, it is far more common for white powder heroin to be laced with fentanyl (which is hundreds of times more potent).

"Powder" Heroin is most often light-ish brown/tan (the darker the better, generally -- with exceptions of course). It will still cook up to the familiar color of motor oil. White powder is almost unheard of these days. While generally considered to be of better quality, it's often referred to as "China White" -- I believe this stems from the heroin boom of the 1970's when most of it was imported from the Far East after the Vietnam War era.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#62

Post by aaron695 »

martinald wrote: post #7
xyzzy4 wrote: post #3

They should also sell heroin in pharmacies so people can inject an accurate dosage. This would greatly reduce overdoses and drug trafficking.

I literally cannot understand why this is being downvoted. Prescribed heroin would save thousands of lives and billions of dollars in ER OD cases and the acquisitive crime that this disorder causes. Shame on you HN.

> I literally cannot understand why this is being downvoted.

Because it's off topic?

You can't seriously think HN is not anti-prohibition?

To move forward we need to be practical.

One city in the entire US is getting an injection room.

Why start talking about the legalisation of heroin? If it works but it can't be implemented why discuss at this point when we are discussing something that does greatly help and is being implemented.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#63

Post by state_less »

thilmo wrote: post #37
rangibaby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you going to do when they start taking drugs again and die? Or kill someone? Pass down some moral judgment?

> What are you going to do when they start taking drugs again and die? Shrug my shoulders. Those things are banned because they're dangerous, and if people die while using them it's not like we didn't give them enough fucking warning.

Actually, these days a lot of heroin users are getting started because their doctor prescribed them an analogue to heroin. Pain pills are being pushed out onto the market and people tend to keep buying once they get started.

And often drugs are banned not because they are harmful, but instead to punish a class of people. For example alcohol is more dangerous than weed, but weed is against the law in most places.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#64

Post by jarcoal »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #47
martinald wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally cannot understand why this is being downvoted. Prescribed heroin would save thousands of lives and billions of dollars in ER OD cases and the acquisitive crime that this disorder causes. Shame on you HN.

>Prescribed heroin would save thousands of lives and billions of dollars in ER OD cases and the acquisitive crime that this disorder causes. If you get a prescription for heroin that would probably lead to addiction right? Now as an addict you want more, so you go back to the doctor but they won't prescribe anymore ostensibly to prevent overdose. So now you have an addict looking for a way to score more outside of a…

There are a few countries that have been experimenting with heroin clinics that provide not only needles, but the drug itself.

Apparently the results have been pretty good so far: http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-live...

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#65

Post by pizza »

stryk wrote: post #61
JshWright wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black-tar is, as the name implies, a black (or very dark brown) compound, generally pretty sticky (though it can be dried into a powder). White powder heroin is, as the name implies, a white powder. Fentanyl is a white or yellowish powder. For a variety of reasons, it is far more common for white powder heroin to be laced with fentanyl (which is hundreds of times more potent).

"Powder" Heroin is most often light-ish brown/tan (the darker the better, generally -- with exceptions of course). It will still cook up to the familiar color of motor oil. White powder is almost unheard of these days. While generally considered to be of better quality, it's often referred to as "China White" -- I believe this stems from the heroin boom of the 1970's when most of it was imported from the Far East aft…

What is sold as "china white" nowadays will often contain fentanyl

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#66

Post by LargeCompanies »

pauljaworski wrote: post #4

The Midwest/East Coast really need this, since that is where all the powder, fentanyl-laced heroin goes. People are dropping like flies in those regions of the country, while I would imagine the West Coast, where black tar heroin is sold, hasn't seen as much of an increase in overdoses/deaths.

On Facebook here in the middle to upper class suburbs of Baltimore I see friends of friends OD and dying once a month.

I don't understand why as growing up I dont recall such an epidemic, yet I do recall a ton of don't do drugs type of education. Has all those type PSAs & education in schools cease to exist and or not as well funded as back in the 80s and 90s?

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#67

Post by kibwen »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #54

Yes, finally people are starting to see drugs addicts as the valuable people they are and not as disposable felons. Addiction is a sickness that affects people not a failure of morals that needs a jail sentence.

I know a high-functioning heroin addict who's a programmer by day. It's surprising to discover seemingly-normal people who have this monkey on their backs, given the popular perception of addicts.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#68

Post by nrjdhsbsid »

booleandilemma wrote: post #43

I used to work at a retail pharmacy and we would have addicts come in to buy needles all the time. On the one hand I felt bad about supplying these people with what they needed to feed their habit, on the other hand I felt good that they were coming to us instead of sharing needles with their buddies.

I feel like harm reduction can go a long way toward helping these people. After all, something like 50% of alcoholics, and I assume other drug users, eventually quit on their own and remain abstinent.

Making it harder for "functional" drug users to accidentally ruin their lives could significantly reduce the number of addicts in the long term by increasing quit rates

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#69

Post by jayajay »

theptip wrote: post #36
jayajay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced that that it will reduce overdose or trafficking. It depends on the drug's economics and pharmacodynamics, ease of production, addictiveness, LD50, etc. What's better? More people using high-grade heroin in a controlled, safe environment, or less people using low quality heroin in an uncontrolled, dangerous environment? If the LD50 is very easy to arrive at in everyday usage, then I don't see this…

The LD-50 of heroin is high relative to the recreational dose; it's widely regarded to be a relatively safe drug, when administered pure. Many governments have programs that administer heroin prescriptions to addicts, e.g. Switzerland [1]. Wikipedia gives the overdose level at 75-600mg[2], and Erowid reports the recreational dose at 5mg[3] (both for "opiate-naive" individuals, i.e. no tolerance). >10x is a high safet…

Impure drugs is certainly a big problem, and is the most compelling reason for legalization and healthcare instead of incarceration and war.

Only a single order of magnitude is not enough of a safety margin, depending on the substance, and how easy it is to administer the substance. Is alcohol's LD50/dose ratio an apt comparison? Does alcohol require a higher administration energy than heroin? It seems like it would be easier to "accidentally" consume half a gram of heroin in a small amount of time, as opposed to "accidentally" consuming 100 beers (or 2 handles).

Drug users experiment across this mere 10x range effortlessly, according to your source:

> As usage increases, however, the doses get much higher

Apparently, they get to 100x. Crazy!:

> The Swiss found that users offered unlimited quantities would, on average, max out at between 300 and 500 mg

This seems to support my view. I can't help but imagine a dystopian future (past?) where they start selling a soda called "HeroHera" which has trace amounts of heroin in it.

Anyways, it seems pretty dangerous for brains to depend on the naive-LD50 of heroin. Forgetting to consume it after one has an established a dependency must surely be an issue. How do we know that a potential widespread dependency on heroin and a requirement for widespread heroin sanctuaries won't actually cost more than the war on drugs?

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#70

Post by drvdevd »

grzm wrote: post #48
jbigelow76 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Prescribed heroin would save thousands of lives and billions of dollars in ER OD cases and the acquisitive crime that this disorder causes. If you get a prescription for heroin that would probably lead to addiction right? Now as an addict you want more, so you go back to the doctor but they won't prescribe anymore ostensibly to prevent overdose. So now you have an addict looking for a way to score more outside of a…

If you get a prescription for heroin that would probably lead to addiction right? Under what circumstances do you think doctors would be prescribing heroin? Because a person wants to give it a try? For recreational use? Doctors already prescribe (under heavy regulation) narcotics for pain relief. If they were to prescribe heroin, I can't imagine it would be cavalierly prescribed for anything, other to address existin…

> (under heavy regulation)

... and this is where most Heroin addicts start, actually, through prescription opiate use. Once a physical addiction is formed, heroin can be a cheaper or more accessible alternative to a prescription for say, Oxycontin.

I thought John Oliver had a good segment on it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdPrQFjo2o

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