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Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

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Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#21

The Midwest/East Coast really need this, since that is where all the powder, fentanyl-laced heroin goes. People are dropping like flies in those regions of the country, while I would imagine the West Coast, where black tar heroin is sold, hasn't seen as much of an increase in overdoses/deaths.

What's the difference between powder and black-tar heroin?

Black-tar is, as the name implies, a black (or very dark brown) compound, generally pretty sticky (though it can be dried into a powder). White powder heroin is, as the name implies, a white powder.

Fentanyl is a white or yellowish powder.

For a variety of reasons, it is far more common for white powder heroin to be laced with fentanyl (which is hundreds of times more potent).

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally cannot understand why this is being downvoted. Prescribed heroin would save thousands of lives and billions of dollars in ER OD cases and the acquisitive crime that this disorder causes. Shame on you HN.

>Shame on you HN. Yeah shame on people for having a different opinion then yours.

No... shame on them for expressing that disagreement by downvoting a thoughtful comment.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#23
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad this is being down-voted, because you're absolutely right. There will always be people who turn to substances, but the war on recreational drugs creates a black market that results in sketchy, dangerous product. Decriminalization and legalization of drugs will make everyone better off (except drug Cartels).

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

Do some reading on "harm reduction". There is actually a fair amount of research on this topic.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#24
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad this is being down-voted, because you're absolutely right. There will always be people who turn to substances, but the war on recreational drugs creates a black market that results in sketchy, dangerous product. Decriminalization and legalization of drugs will make everyone better off (except drug Cartels).

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

I'm not aware of any country that's gone that far, but, Portugal decriminalized recreational-quantity possession in 2001 (across the board) and did a study on the societal effects in 2009: "Empirical data from that report indicate that decriminalization has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates. However, drug-related pathologies - such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage - have decreased dramatically."[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

Who gets to make the rules as to what can or cannot be consumed, and how do you enforce those rules?

We as a society elect people who collectively create rules. And the police force enforces the rules. I.e. it's part of the social contract we join.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#26
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad this is being down-voted, because you're absolutely right. There will always be people who turn to substances, but the war on recreational drugs creates a black market that results in sketchy, dangerous product. Decriminalization and legalization of drugs will make everyone better off (except drug Cartels).

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

There are places like Amsterdam that are perfectly functional with recreational drugs, although they still maintain a distinction for "hard drugs." Making such a distinction is fine -- it would be a huge step in right direction to at least recognize that recreational drug use is not inherently bad. But in reality, I don't think "dangerous" drugs are any less dangerous or prevalent because they are illegal, so I'm not convinced the distinction is necessary. The government-focused stigma against drugs was never so prevalent before the 20th century.

http://www.amsterdam.info/drugs/

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#27
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

Maybe you'll find this persuasive? http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

No. Just because the war on drugs was started for a racist reason doesn't make banning drugs themselves a bad idea. I don't think people can make valid choices about the use or not use of highly addictive drugs. We as a society can do better than to help people be strung out.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that is the popular meme. But is it really true? What country on earth can you buy any drug you want without a prescription in a pharmacy, and how does the culture look like? Frankly some stuff is really bad and should be kept away from people.

Yes, people don't realize that this "solution" doesn't work for any drug just because it makes sense for marijuana. For the people who disagree: In the limiting case thought experiment, imagine a drug which provides a complete DMT + MDMA experience with a single molecule, but has a 50% chance of killing you. Should this drug be easily available in a store? Run a simulation, let me know what the half life of your popu…

I don't think it works with anything more addictive than say coffee and with reasonably negative health effects. I.e. today's engineered tobacco is likely on the wrong side of where I would personally draw the line.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#29
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would it bet better for everyone to have a safe, controlled dependency on heroin, or for 5% of people to have an unsafe, uncontrolled dependency on heroin? For an answer, you can just look at alcohol, which is typically assessed as having roughly similar social harm to heroin (although it varies by source). Were things better during prohibition, or today?

I can't accept that heroin and alcohol are equal in that sense. I would be very skeptical about any sources claiming this equality. Ease of production, pharmacodynamics, etc. Edit: Ideally, humans wouldn't be consuming poison? But, what is poison? It's a lot more complicated than "alcohol is bad" or "heroin is bad". Maybe you are right, letting down the flood gates will surely kill people who don't have control, and…

Honest question, do you have an alcohol problem or addictive personality that is driving this fear? If not, what keeps you from drinking yourself to sleep on the sidewalk every night?

When it comes down to it, not all drugs are equal. Heroin isn't "alcohol but worse". People who drink tend to get pretty nasty sometimes, and that's a social harm that someone who's nodding doesn't perpetrate. And in terms of physical harm, heroin is actually pretty low compared to alcohol. Lots of people destroy their livers with alcohol and die early, while there's an awful lot of rockstars who do piles of heroin and cocaine and live to their 70s and beyond (we need to start worrying about the kind of world we're going to leave for Keith Richards).

The harm comes from getting bathtub stuff of uncertain potency and purity, and from the things people need to do to afford their fix. If it's clean and affordable you tend to do fairly well on both the 'personal' and 'social' harm aspects.

Obviously that's not how DARE told you to feel, but the fact is that the current state of things is not the only one that is ever possible. You don't know what social use would look like in a society with legalized heroin usage.

If you eliminate the need to commit crime to obtain black-market drugs at obscene prices, a lot of the harms of heroin go away. Some people will still choose to do it, but we free up a whole bunch of police money that can be redirected to free treatment resources to help people quit when they realize they aren't going to find happiness in drugs.

Re: Seattle Is Opening First in U.S. “Safe Injection Facility” for Heroin Addicts

#30
We've had this in Australia for some time and I think it's abominable.

Western civilisation is founded on the rule of law. Obey the law and you do fine, break the law and you get punished. When you start saying to people "Hey guys, we know you're breaking the law, but go ahead and fucking do it in this room, we don't mind, you won't get arrested or punished"

Here's a better approach to drug users: catch them, sentence them to mandatory cold-turkey rehab, don't let them out until they're clean.

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