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Twitter discloses national security letters

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Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#151

Post by WillyOnWheels »

Karunamon wrote: post #105
WillyOnWheels wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtue signaling is a meaningless phrase.

..seeing something like this come from someone with the name of an infamous Wikipedia troll is just a little bit giggle worthy. That said, no it isn't. the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue. In other words, it's a way to proclaim "I am a good person!" to the world, usually in a…

The phrase 'virtue signaling' is always meant to convey "public expressing opinions intended to demonstrate one's good character, in a vacuous or shallow way". There's no "usually" about it.

My comment was commenting on someone who wrote (doing a little interpolating here) "It's just Jack(in his role as CEO of twitter) is just virtue signaling, who was commenting on whether Twitter is or is not Twitter is 'shadowbanning' Scott Adams.

It's a nonsense argument, Twitter doesn't shadowban, the commenter is probably also commenting on Jack's very public positions on equality and justice. His public statements are heard by millions. I'm sure he actually means what he says. It's not vacuous or shallow.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#152

Post by pmoriarty »

moxious wrote: post #47
anw wrote: post #21

This is a welcome message, especially seeing Twitter continue to fight for their freedom of speech in court (Twitter v. Lynch), along with the host of other Internet service companies. While I understand government agencies' desires to investigate persons of interest, the checks and balances of the system were put in place to do just that – check and balance the power of the system. It's outrageous that agencies feel…

I may be in the minority, but I still think these companies are being cowardly. They disclose as soon as they're permitted to, but the trouble with that is that the permission is coming from the people who are the problem in the first place. An approach that would care about customers and show some more guts would be simple refusal. In essence, civil disobedience in the face of someone who is violating the law. Let t…

People who care deeply enough about civil liberties to go to jail for it are rarely the type to seek or acquire much power.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#153

Post by wpietri »

wpietri wrote: post #118
trendia wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sender sends it to multiple devices, each with a different key. I know that Signal messages can be sent to mobile and desktop at the same time, and it is seamless to do so. The sender does not even know that they are sending it to two devices

I can't tell if you know you only answered part of the question.

And just to be clear, the big part he's missing is about web apps. Whisper Systems is very clear that they're not doing a web version:

https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Desktop/issues/723

If they did, they would be the one holding the keys, not the user. The proposed solution also ignores the new-device case. If you install Twitter on your new phone, log in, and look at your DMs,you expect the whole history to be there. But if messages are encrypted for each device at time of transmission, then the new phone starts blank.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#154

Post by dgrealy »

Steko wrote: post #82
dgrealy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you are getting that I want anything different? Also, don't go around calling people insane.

> How you are getting that I want anything different? Then perhaps you're under the misunderstanding that a judge has signed off on the NSL's. That is not the case, these are warrantless searches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United...

Go ahead and downvote me, but NSA has a different process than warrants for a reason. There is signoff which satisfies the constitution. Secret court, secret panel. It is secret for a reason and the court is overseen by congress.

However personally I would prefer these cases to be declassified after a reasonalbe amount of time, where it is possible to protect the innocent.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#155

Post by nebabyte »

moxious wrote: post #136
jessespears wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company officers or agents who were served with the letter could be held personally liable for failure to comply with the order. I think it's a little unfair to expect employees to go to prison for contempt of court in defiance of the order.

Yes, that could happen. But there's the Spider-Man Rule: "with great power comes great responsibility". They're running a major international media outlet over there, and they do have some pretty heavyweight responsibilities that come with that, even if it conflicts with their personal lives.

Life isn't fiction.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#156

Post by mirimir »

brokenmachine wrote: post #131
mirimir wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So maybe they ought to be anonymous: http://www.cryptohippie.net/AnonAdmin.html

You're giving system administrator status to an anonymous person on the internet. What could possibly go wrong?

You give them limited access and rights, to do what you want them to do. Here, they would have access to communications with government agencies, ability to tweet users or groups thereof, and perhaps responsibility for canary management.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#157

Post by funnyfacts365 »

wpietri wrote: post #153
wpietri wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you know you only answered part of the question.

And just to be clear, the big part he's missing is about web apps. Whisper Systems is very clear that they're not doing a web version: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Desktop/issues/723 If they did, they would be the one holding the keys, not the user. The proposed solution also ignores the new-device case. If you install Twitter on your new phone, log in, and look at your DMs,you expect the whole history to…

Don't browsers have a certificate store that can be used to store private keys?

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#158

Post by jakubp »

moxious wrote: post #150
jakubp wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't providing one [constructive way out] either. It's not Twitter's or any other company's fault, yet you want them to pay the price in form of risk. Why don't you pay it yourself?

Well, no one can prove what they'd do if they were in this situation. But I can't pay this cost for twitter, because the government hasn't asked this of me. I don't believe they'd go to jail though. I do believe they'd cause an utter shitstorm for themselves personally and professionally though, but that they'd get a lot of attention to the matter and come out the other side OK. I can think of at least 5 non-profits…

Right. So I think you and I agree on some element of responsibility and that it feels too convenient for those companies to just say "sorry, there is nothing we can do". On the other hand, I think it's clear now how things generally play out behind the scenes, so at leats we as users of those services can either stop using them entirely, or seek alternatives that are hosted overseas (relative to US) and where US jurisdiction is weaker. That would secure us a bit as individuals, but it does nothing for the big picture. I don't see a clear way out.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#159

Post by Steko »

dgrealy wrote: post #154
Steko wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How you are getting that I want anything different? Then perhaps you're under the misunderstanding that a judge has signed off on the NSL's. That is not the case, these are warrantless searches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United...

Go ahead and downvote me, but NSA has a different process than warrants for a reason. There is signoff which satisfies the constitution. Secret court, secret panel. It is secret for a reason and the court is overseen by congress. However personally I would prefer these cases to be declassified after a reasonalbe amount of time, where it is possible to protect the innocent.

Again you seem to misunderstand: a NSL is not the NSA going to a secret court, it is the FBI not going to any court.

Re: Twitter discloses national security letters

#160

Post by hellbanner »

throwaway91111 wrote: post #84
hellbanner wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter let Arab Spring happen. Think about that.. what was their political motivation?

It doesn't take much to let something happen when the correct course is to do nothing.

No nation exists in a vacuum.
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