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Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

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Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#51

Makers are often exposed to many toxic compounds, from toxins in salvaged electronics to PCB etching compounds to lead solder and solder fumes. Unfortunately, they rarely have much if any safety training or awareness of the dangers they are exposing themselves to.

As a new hobbyist in the Maker community, are there any resources you'd recommend that covers basic safety that is aimed at Makers?

edit: typo

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#52
post #47
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said anything about the laser tube. I think it's more likely they did use a gas supply and that leaked.

What would you use a CO2 supply for with a laser cutter or 3D printer then? I can't think of anything.

Maybe I misunderstand how CO2 lasers work. But my understanding is that a high-powered CO2 laser can be run using a gas supply from a tank/regulator. As mentioned elsewhere, this is typically only done in industrial settings, but some home laser cutting enthusiasts want more power. The tank contains some mixture of gases, primarily CO2, but containing other gases, likely some CO. If the tank/regulator to laser tube connection is leaking in a closed room, then the CO concentration in the air will increase.

This is speculation on my part based on my assumptions. If my assumptions are incorrect that's fine.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Glowforge's website, for their base model: > It needs ventilation via the provided 4″ diameter (10.2cm) hose. We recommend putting the hose out a window.

I'm guessing this is undergoing a hurried rewrite, to add something along the lines of 'or you may die.' they're gonna get sued out the yin-yang for this even if the dead couple totally ignored the instructions, on the grounds that the instructions didn't state the danger clearly enough. Having said that, while good safety information is important, two MIT-trained engineers should really have known better.

Why should they have known better? He was a software engineer and she may have had exposure to lab technique but a Glowforge doesn't scream "needs an industrial hood" or anything. Yes, they clearly _could_ have known better, but 'should' seems to be making too-strong assumptions about their class work, MIT or other. They could have had economics degrees for all we know (less likely given their careers, but you get my point).

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#54

CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…

To add to this, here's a really interesting story of someone who thought that his landlord was stalking him, but really he slowly become poisoned by a carbon monoxide leak.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/34novp/user_thinks_...

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#55
This is so tragic. I used to work with Roger and he's about as gifted of an engineer as I've ever met. He was so nice and helpful too, even though he was miles beyond me in terms of skill.

He was so into his indy game, Shard, and even whipped out his laptop to show me and started explaining intricacies of the renderer when I met him at an industry event years later.

I didn't know his wife, but from the things I've read she was also a pioneer in her industry. Rest in Peace.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#56

CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…

No it's within hours. A simple google search will show you that.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#57

CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…

I think CO doesn't get unstuck from hemoglobin at all. 2 weeks sounds about right, in that that would be the body's mean replacement time for a hemoglobin molecule.

The normal half-life of carboxyhemoglobin, when the patient is breathing room air, is 240 to 360 minutes (4-6 hours). The half-life of COHb can be decreased to 80 minutes with the administration of 100% oxygen.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#58
Article and headline are incorrect: "Carbon monoxide poisoning has also been ruled out."[1][2][3]

Both MIT grads; one a founder of gaming company Glug Glug[2] and co-author of game Shard[4]

1. http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01/25/berkeley-toxicology-t...

2. http://kotaku.com/game-developers-mourn-sudden-passing-of-ex...

3. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Two-people-found-dead-Be...

4. http://shard-game.com/

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#59
post #52
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you use a CO2 supply for with a laser cutter or 3D printer then? I can't think of anything.

Maybe I misunderstand how CO2 lasers work. But my understanding is that a high-powered CO2 laser can be run using a gas supply from a tank/regulator. As mentioned elsewhere, this is typically only done in industrial settings, but some home laser cutting enthusiasts want more power. The tank contains some mixture of gases, primarily CO2, but containing other gases, likely some CO. If the tank/regulator to laser tube c…

The "gas supply" you're referring to is most likely an "air-assist". Laser cutting works better when you have a flow of air (just air), blowing the smoke out of the way.

Many folks use small compressors for this purpose.

But it won't have anything to do with CO levels.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#60
post #51

Makers are often exposed to many toxic compounds, from toxins in salvaged electronics to PCB etching compounds to lead solder and solder fumes. Unfortunately, they rarely have much if any safety training or awareness of the dangers they are exposing themselves to.

As a new hobbyist in the Maker community, are there any resources you'd recommend that covers basic safety that is aimed at Makers? edit: typo

I'd start with digging up the material safety data sheets (MSDS)[1] for all the compounds you're working with, and reading over those.

I'd also search around for books and papers on electronics safety. It's really amazing just how little electricity is required to stop a human heart, if the conditions are right.

The same goes for chemical safety. College level textbooks on these subjects tend to at least give a decent overview of the issues involved, to a more thorough degree than books targeted at a popular audience. But I wouldn't stop there, and would try to find some more specialist literature dealing with safety in particular.

I'd also encourage you to take courses in these subjects, and talk to the professors about your interest in safety. Unfortunately safety is not a very sexy topic, and tends to get glossed over a lot. But you'll still be far better off with guidance from an experienced instructor than trying to go it all on your own.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_data_sheet

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