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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Time to Take a Stand

#171

Post by ebola1717 »

ryanx435 wrote: post #133
kasey_junk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure of any nominal principle that says we have to do business with, work for or to invite to things people who behave abhorrently. That Thiel can get a table at a restaurant in SV proves all the talk about changing the world tech leaders do is so much nonsense.

It's crazy that you can't see how hypocritical you are: you ate literally saying that restaurants shouls ban thiel because he supports a person who bans people. Look in a mirror once in a while, buddy

Are you really comparing divestment to segregation?????????????

You realize the reason segregation was wrong was because it was based on someone's skin color, not the actions they've taken?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#172

Post by bobzibub »

karmelapple wrote: post #43
djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

It's all in a per-individual basis. I know many family members who specifically encouraged this ban. To them, I will now have to have the difficult conversation of how their desire for safety - at any cost to people unlike themselves - has unintended consequences. And I doubt it will be a pleasant conversation.

I think that their desire for safety is not valid either. If an immigrant population believes they are unwanted by the majority, they'll tend to have "no skin in the game" for the society which they live and be much more open to political violence, crime etc. I believe if you compare (in this case) Muslim immigrants to England vs Muslim immigrants to Canada you'll see a difference in acceptance by the majority. Obviously Canada does not have universal acceptance of Muslim immigrants or any immigrants, but Canada does try to integrate immigrants more. I believe this is reflected in the number of terrorist attacks in those countries. If the Muslim immigrant minority (or any other) becomes more alienated, expect poor outcomes. Just like some poor Americans feel alienated by their country and some have fewer qualms about violent political acts.

I'm a Canuck and so I may be biased. But if my understanding is incorrect, I'd be interested in hearing.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#173

Post by fictioncircle »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #27
jowiar wrote: post #11

This is meaningless grandstanding until: 1) YC voted Thiel off the island 2) YC establishes a policy of "take money from Thiel and you are toxic to us" Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society.

>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

> People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

When the person's actions are directly and publicly detrimental to the business interests, the investor/backer/employee is at odds with the rest of the group and yeah at that point its not just a belief but a question of the self-interest of the business being at odds with one of its investor/employee/backers.

Let us be honest here, Thiel is also backing a man that has no trouble firing people who aren't Yesmen. If that is the sort of standard he wants applied to other people, it should apply to him as well.

There comes up a point when the pile of problems extends simply beyond belief but realized action in the real world that directly impacts other people. It is at that point, action is always taken in any situation. Please do not simply call this a 'belief' at this point when Thiel's goals and the related actions are realized in the manner he desired.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#174

Post by smacktoward »

fowlerpower wrote: post #84

This is absolutely nuts. Green card holders (legal permanent residents of the United States) are being turned back from the US as soon as they get to the airport. They are being forced to file waivers which can be denied. How can legal permanent residents be denied entry? I mean this has to be breaking So many laws, how can this be ok?

Laws do not enforce themselves. They only have power when there are people with authority willing to stand up and enforce them. Without that, they are just words on paper.

Right now all three branches of the Federal government are in the hands of the Republican Party. Trump has one branch; the other two have no interest in opposing him, so long as he lets them do what they want as well. So for the moment, at least, those laws that all three of them disagree with can be assumed to have gone by the boards.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#175

Post by zitterbewegung »

myblake wrote: post #22
_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

How effective is calling local congress members if you live in an area with a strong progressive majority such as the Bay Area. Not that we shouldn't voice our option to our represented officials but I suspect in some ways it's redundant whereas things like raising money for national organizations may be more impactful.

Just because you voted in someone doesn't mean that they necessarily know what you want them to legislate. Writing them letters and calling them is one of the most effective ways to do this and this was effective for SOPA.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#176

Post by 467568985476 »

Sama, I appreciate your taking a stand on this, but how do you reconcile YCombinator's ties with Peter Thiel? Actions speak loud than words, and so far we've only seen words from you guys. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#177

Post by artursapek »

oh_sigh wrote: post #111

Why do people call this a "Muslim ban", when most Muslims are unaffected by it? There are 200M Muslims in Indonesia who are unaffected, 180M Pakistani Muslims, 172M Indian Muslims, 150M Bangladeshi Muslims, 75M Nigerian Muslims, 75M Turkish Muslims, 73M Egyptian Muslims...all of these people are unaffected by this "Muslim ban"

Because they want to frame it as "racism"

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#178

Post by Scirra_Tom »

general_ai wrote: post #100

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

> First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place.

He's got his foot in the door. That's all he needs right now.

> But there's another aspect of this that baffles me. Somehow Sam has no issues with democrats totally destabilizing the Middle East, and funding/arming ISIS to depose Assad. Yet the moment Trump attempts to mitigate the negative side effects of that to this country, "it's time to take a stand".

Taking who started it out of the equation, I find it morally repugnant for the USA to destabilise a region then find it acceptable to callously turn away those who were victims of that away.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#179

Post by disantlor »

kcorbitt wrote: post #65

I think that the only way to fix this long-term is by winning the hearts and minds of those who think this ban is a good idea, or who are ambivalent about it. Unfortunately, those of us who have been shrilly opposing every move Trump has ever made are perhaps the most poorly positioned to do that. Trump has successfully demonized the voice of the mainstream media and costal cultural elites, and if you're perceived as…

is that true? those people represent a minority of the minority of citizens that voted.

there are enough people who hate the ban and the ideas that lead to it to win elections. they need to be activated, consistently.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#180

Post by oculusthrift »

djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

yeah a lot aren't racist, they are just incredibly stupid lemmings. we need to learn to brainwash them like Fox News, Trump, and ads for buying gold do.
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