Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 1001 posts

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#71

Post by mjmsmith »

mcenedella wrote: post #12

"The executive order… is tantamount to a Muslim ban" isn't quite true. Islam by country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country 1. Indonesia 2. Pakistan 3. India 4. Bangladesh 5. Nigeria 6. Iran 7. Turkey 8. Egypt 9. Algeria 10. Sudan It's probably not a great tactic to perpetuate the American habit for making sweeping comments about the rest of the world which aren't really grounded in truth. Might be best to…

That's true, it doesn't apply to countries that Trump does business with, including the one that produced most of the 9/11 hijackers.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#72

Post by jMyles »

jcoffland wrote: post #28
giancarlostoro wrote: post #14

I hope you mean "Peacefully Protest" I shut my eyes and ears once protesting becomes violent.

A little violence never hurt anyone.

I think there's a definition problem. If it doesn't hurt anyone, it isn't violence. It is is violence, it hurts people.

Hurting people is the default tactic of the state, but doesn't have to be our way.

While violence is occasionally effective in making political change, many of us hope that in the internet age, it won't be.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#73

Post by bratsche »

myblake wrote: post #22
_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

How effective is calling local congress members if you live in an area with a strong progressive majority such as the Bay Area. Not that we shouldn't voice our option to our represented officials but I suspect in some ways it's redundant whereas things like raising money for national organizations may be more impactful.

It feels like it's not very effective, but that may be because there needs more weight of numbers behind it. If you're in a progressive area like the Bay area I can see how it would just add extra load to officials who may not need further persuading.

I'm in Texas though. A very red state. I've been calling my representative and senators to voice my opinion on all this stuff, but it's hard to tell how effective it is. I either get someone on the phone who sounds like, "oh geez, another angry liberal" or I have someone who just sounds like they'll add my name to a tally or something and says "I'll pass it along" and it's hard to know if they will or if that will help. And then I call my state senator to oppose the bathroom bill going through the Texas senate and the person who I'm talking to on the phone gets borderline combative with me.

I found a group of local people who are trying to do this in a more organized way. I found this[1] the other day and it makes me feel hopeful that our efforts are helping somewhat. We just need to not lose steam. It's easy to get fatigued by this kind of stuff, and we're only a week in.

[1] http://www.sacurrent.com/the-daily/archives/2017/01/26/cruz-...

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#74

Post by mozumder »

You really do need to demonize Trump voters. Most of them are in favor of his horrible policies, and are malicious themselves.

You're never going to get anywhere without recognizing the source of the problem.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#75

Post by myblake »

burkaman wrote: post #59
myblake wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How effective is calling local congress members if you live in an area with a strong progressive majority such as the Bay Area. Not that we shouldn't voice our option to our represented officials but I suspect in some ways it's redundant whereas things like raising money for national organizations may be more impactful.

First, it helps put actual weight behind their words, so they can say "I received 2000 calls about this issue in the past week" or something. Second, members of congress have limited time and limited political capital, so if for example you want them to prioritize stopping the Muslim ban over stopping the border wall, you should let them know. It helps them choose what to focus on, and can also help them recruit othe…

Fair enough, I do think the quantification argument is sound. I certainly don't mean to discourage anyone from contacting their elected officials, I just want to highlight the fact a lot of us live in areas that are both solidly more progressive and solidly more wealthy than the median county in the us.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#76

Post by [deleted] »

jowiar wrote: post #69
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

People have a right to choose who they (do or don't) associate with. And people have a right to judge those based on who they deem worthy of association. Thiel can believe what he wants. He can say what he wants. Mostly it shows he's a cowardly little narcissistic shit. And it's damn telling when folks still keep him around.

[deleted]

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#78

Post by jMyles »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

These items seem to be the very things that have sapped our strength without any measurable impact.

We need to find more direct ways to peacefully withdraw our consent of and participation in the existence of the state.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#79

Post by [deleted] »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #27
jowiar wrote: post #11

This is meaningless grandstanding until: 1) YC voted Thiel off the island 2) YC establishes a policy of "take money from Thiel and you are toxic to us" Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society.

>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

[deleted]

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#80

Post by DINKDINK »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #14

I hope you mean "Peacefully Protest" I shut my eyes and ears once protesting becomes violent.

The state and powerful groups rely on opinions like your. All they have to do is insert an agent provocateur[1]. They can turn any legitimately peaceful protest into something that, in your eyes, should be ignored. It reminds me of this meme: https://pics.onsizzle.com/white-people-2016-destruction-of-p...

The country you live in and the laws you abide by were founded on, and enforced by violence. Essentially your comment is saying "I will only respect the violence of the state".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

Post reply on HN