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Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

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Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#51
post #4
post #2

Not sure why Tarsnap has bubbled up on HN again, but I'm always happy to answer questions about Tarsnap if there's anything anyone here wants to know.

Always wanted to try Tarsnap for personal use, but I can only budget if the cost was comparable to Dropbox/Microsoft OneDrive/Google Drive/iCloud/Amazon Drive which are all ~$10/TB/mo, but instead Tarsnap seems about an order of magnitude more expensive? Or is the product just not aimed at me? I currently use Arq[1] for backups (which has its own encryption[2] with a user choice of cloud backend), but Tarsnap has suc…

i haven't used tarsnap either, but i see it as cold storage. dropbox, onedrive, etc are all hot storage and would get rendered useless by a cryptolocker

cant say anything about arq, as ive never head of them.

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#52
post #2

Not sure why Tarsnap has bubbled up on HN again, but I'm always happy to answer questions about Tarsnap if there's anything anyone here wants to know.

Downloading large amount of data from tarsnap archive is very slow. Any tips/tricks to speed them up?

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#53

Colin is probably one of the best minds in encryption that I know of. He wrote Scrypt[1] as well. My gripe has always been that while Tarsnap is a product that is clearly built for developers, it does not have to look and feel like the 90's and use obscure and non-intuitive billing (picodollar). The web interface and landing site need some designer/UX love for sure, but at the same time I think Colin is happy and sat…

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ - pretty much everything you just said.

Sound like a poorly founded rant:

* No need to use DMS, cron emails you the output of your tasks anyway. A three-line script can be used to "only email on error".

* The proposed pricing model goes against everything that tarsnap stands for, charging arbitrary amounts placing users in arbitrary ranges.

* The proposed pricing model means a 13x price increase for me (WTF!?).

* No need to be a sysadmin or anything alike to configure it. Granted, it's not for the masses, but for anyone in the tech industry, it's just a matter of RTFM.

Want something for end-users? Write a nice UI wrapper around tarsnap and overcharge that. Same backend, different product.

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#54

Why did you never follow Patrick's advice: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ Not your thing? I've always wondered.

I do follow some of his advice. :-)

This bit: "Yes folks, Tarsnap — “backups for the truly paranoid” — will in fact rm -rf your backups if you fail to respond to two emails." is no longer true; you get three emails, and often more if you're a long-time Tarsnap user / I recognize your email address for some reason / you have a history of getting your data almost deleted.

A short time later, Patrick writes "If Colin does, in fact, exercise discretion about shooting backups in the head, that should be post-haste added to the site" -- which is something I considered doing but ended up with a firm "nope, not happening" to, for two reasons:

1. I hate to advertise "discretion" because people get upset if you exercise your discretion in a way which is not in their favour, and

2. I have solid statistical evidence that people respond to incentives. An email which says "Your Tarsnap account will be deleted soon" is far more likely to make people do something than an email which says "Your Tarsnap account needs more money and if you don't pay up soon and don't write back then I'll think about deleting it" (which is actually closer to the truth). I really really don't want to delete someone's data when they still need it -- it has happened a handful of times and I feel awful about it -- and implying the presence of a ruthless cron job is quite an effective mechanism for preventing that.

Later, Patrick writes

Current strap line: Online backups for the truly paranoid

Revised strap line: Online backups for servers of serious professionals

Here, I simply disagree with Patrick; nobody interprets "truly paranoid" as meaning "diagnosed by a psychiatrist as suffering from mental illness". I think this branding has been highly effective.

Tarsnap is for backing up servers, not for backing up personal machines. It is a pure B2B product. We’ll keep prosumer entry points around mainly because I think Colin will go nuclear if I suggest otherwise, but we’re going to start talking about business, catering to the needs of businesses, and optimizing the pieces of the service “around” the product for the needs of businesses.

I have an unfair advantage over Patrick here: I know Tarsnap's user base. With the exception of Stripe, which started using Tarsnap thanks to Patrick (err, the other Patrick...), every large corporate user of Tarsnap I can think of started using Tarsnap thanks to a sysadmin who had used Tarsnap personally. In economic terms, Tarsnap's "personal" customers provide most of their "lifetime value" as sales channels to their employers.

This is already getting a bit long to be an HN comment, so I'll stop going through point by point. Suffice to say that a number of things Patrick suggests have either happened or are in progress. Customer testimonials? There's now a page full of them (starting with Stripe). Improved getting-started documentation? Done. Advice for dealing with a variety of common scenarios? A whole page of tips. Binary packages for common platforms? Due to be announced in a few days (currently available as "experimental"). A GUI? In progress, hopefully landing soon.

I've used this metaphor before, but I like it so I'm going to use it again. Patrick gives great business advice, but Tarsnap is not just a strategy for me to make money. So I treat his advice like ships treat navigational beacons: Paying close attention to them, and using them to plot a course, but not steering directly towards them.

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#56
post #4
post #2

Not sure why Tarsnap has bubbled up on HN again, but I'm always happy to answer questions about Tarsnap if there's anything anyone here wants to know.

Always wanted to try Tarsnap for personal use, but I can only budget if the cost was comparable to Dropbox/Microsoft OneDrive/Google Drive/iCloud/Amazon Drive which are all ~$10/TB/mo, but instead Tarsnap seems about an order of magnitude more expensive? Or is the product just not aimed at me? I currently use Arq[1] for backups (which has its own encryption[2] with a user choice of cloud backend), but Tarsnap has suc…

Are you really sure you need all that storage? Tarsnap has deduplication, so you might end up using a lot less.

Or not. It depends on your use-case, but I'm just suggesting you consider that factor too.

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#57

Colin is probably one of the best minds in encryption that I know of. He wrote Scrypt[1] as well. My gripe has always been that while Tarsnap is a product that is clearly built for developers, it does not have to look and feel like the 90's and use obscure and non-intuitive billing (picodollar). The web interface and landing site need some designer/UX love for sure, but at the same time I think Colin is happy and sat…

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ - pretty much everything you just said.

In case anyone sees this and not your other comment (which is now at the bottom of the page), I replied to it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13505465

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#58
post #2

Not sure why Tarsnap has bubbled up on HN again, but I'm always happy to answer questions about Tarsnap if there's anything anyone here wants to know.

Downloading large amount of data from tarsnap archive is very slow. Any tips/tricks to speed them up?

Scott Wheeler wrote a tool for speeding up extracts by running multiple tarsnap processes: https://github.com/directededge/redsnapper

There's also the trivial (but often unhelpful) advice of "be closer to the server" -- the problem is one of round trip latencies since the internal design of tar (and thus tarsnap) works on the principle of "read a block; do something with it; repeat". This is what I feel to be the biggest technical pain point in tarsnap, and I know in theory how to fix it, but every time I've started focusing my energy on it other things have come up requiring more urgent attention. :-/

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#59
I've been a tarsnap users for years (keeping personal photos and emails). I'm really please with the service.

I added a cron script years ago with the right paths/filenames, and cron emails me the output (the default). Eventually, the script got a bit more complex, because I wanted a nicer email subject, and being other silly aesthetics.

Still, the service is great and deduplication is awesome: data transfer is extremely low every day, but I have a separate archive for every day for the last several years.

I have a backup of my tarsnap keys off-site, so I don't lose any photos even in case of things like the house burning down. As for emails, chances are I'll never have to need those backups, since they're on my laptop, desktop, and fastmail.

Re: Tarsnap – Online backups for the truly paranoid

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ - pretty much everything you just said.

In case anyone sees this and not your other comment (which is now at the bottom of the page), I replied to it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13505465

If you want a hand with some design work for the site, drop me a note. I'd be happy to help, and local to you.
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