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Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

9to5mac.com

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Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#231

Post by uniclaude »

endemic wrote: post #212
iSnow wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really love to love Apple. But at this point, my eco conscience kicks in. Buying a laptop that cannot be upgraded in any way, be it RAM, SSD, or WIFI card... that's just too much. I have no idea how big the ecological footprint of a laptop is, but it has to be huge. Once my 2012 Macbook Air kicks the dust, I'll look at Lenovo laptops.

I'm seriously considering an x260... most of the components are replaceable/upgradable. Of course it's not as svelte as a MacBook, but you don't have to throw it away when you start hitting swap all the time...

I think the x270 is coming soon, you might want to wait a bit!

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#232

Post by cptskippy »

sytelus wrote: post #182
feross wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want to write fast software, use a slow computer" - Dominic Tarr The 12" Macbook is the best computer I've ever owned. Switched to it from a 2014 Macbook Pro, and found it very easy to adjust. The only time it struggles a little bit is when I run Windows in VMware, on occasion. The biggest benefit of the Macbook 12" is that if software runs well on your computer, you know it's guaranteed to run extra buttery-…

By that logic, every developer should be handed out 486s, right? There are too many things during development that doesn't happen on consumer's computer like compile, fast intellisense, real-time syntax check, multiple instances of IDEs and so on. Developers should have best performing machines money can buy because developer time is expensive and development should happen at speed of thought. Testing should be done…

But if we just forced web developers to use 486s with 32mbs of ram, imagine how fast the internet would become. No more linking to 15mbs of Javascript, CSS, and Web Fonts.

The mobile web would be amazing.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#233

Post by swozey »

guitarbill wrote: post #140
iak8god wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. What boggles my mind is how many of them max out at 8G. I couldn't care less about CPU, and I'm flexible about storage, but 8G RAM is ridiculous. I'm currently using a couple of MS office apps and a web browser on my 2015 MBP and it's using…

> but 8G RAM is ridiculous 8G RAM is not ridiculous. Statements like this just show how far out of touch people are. Many workloads benefit from more RAM. And for some it's a hard requirement (e.g. VMs), but web browsing and a bit of office is not one of them. This is why virtual memory/swap space is a thing - and with an SSD that's also not as horrible as it used to be.

I have local "spin-up everything but pint-sized" dev environments for our developers to use and they far surpass 8gb even at the most minimal. I had my card out and was ready to buy the 2017 MBPr if it had 32gb to upgrade from my 2015 MBPr.

Some people do actually need a lot of ram. Specifically, I work on kubernetes and docker and it's a hard requirement. I'm severely limited in my work now and have to continue using aws+gke for full blown dev environments when if I had the proper amount of ram (what I've had on my desktop for years) I could have full blown testing on my laptop which is always plugged into monitors and a keyboard.

Sure, I'm %1 of the market but I will pay the money if it's available. Next year if I can't get an OSX laptop with 32gb of ram I'm going to wind up traveling down other roads.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#234

Post by seanmcdirmid »

supernovae wrote: post #226
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP takes away a lot from the platform though, like compilation via the DLR, and deploying can take an hour or so of building (I went through a nightmare experience trying to demo on a surfacehub, worked in the end, but damn). I want to like it (Win2D in particular is nice for my needs), but the execution has been lacking.

the "iron" languages never got much adoption though.. perhaps if .net had gone open source before ironpython, ironruby and iron . this would have been more important. With that being said, I believe its only a matter of time before Microsoft brings this to UWP as all the insider and developer surveys have been focusing on asking what other languages people use and want to be able to write in within the context of UWP…

I was using the DLR for my live programming research and was kind of bummed when it was effectively deprecated via nerfing; I never used the iron languages, just the infrastructure used to build them. In fact, this was one thing that Microsoft had that everyone else was lacking, a real unique advantage, dynamic compilation with statically types performance via a tree API and JIT.

My use case was really niche, however.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#235

Post by sliken »

jclardy wrote: post #10

Makes sense with Apple's current terrible product line setup. Both the retina MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro are much more niche than their last generation. Also much more confusing as the MacBook Air successor is $500 more than the 13" Air was (The non-touchbar MacBook Pro is the spiritual successor to the air.) The true 13" Pro for 2016 is also $500 more than the last gen. The 12" MacBook is there...but it is a super…

I wish the Macbook mini would get some love. It's GASP, actually upgradable. Swapping out the dimms, storage, or display is relatively straight forward.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#236

Post by james_niro »

People forget that Apple makes some of the best products in TJ for world. The problem with Apple is that their product last for several years and a lot of us hold on to it. just remember Apple is a cult and it is tons of followers around the world

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#237

Post by snowwrestler »

iak8god wrote: post #96
edblarney wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a new Macbook, and I can say that it's a great product. Probably the best on the market. The problem I had was cost - they are over-priced. Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. My Mac has 200-ish G hard-drive which is f-ing retardedly small. They should all have 1T…

> Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. What boggles my mind is how many of them max out at 8G. I couldn't care less about CPU, and I'm flexible about storage, but 8G RAM is ridiculous. I'm currently using a couple of MS office apps and a web browser on my 2015 MBP and it's using…

> I'm currently using a couple of MS office apps and a web browser on my 2015 MBP and it's using 12G.

You can't take the RAM usage reported in Activity Monitor and extrapolate performance. If you were running the same apps on a recent Mac laptop with 8GB RAM, you'd see them taking 6GB of RAM and running just as fast as they do for you.

The only way to tell when you need more RAM is to load down a machine until it swaps too hard to keep up--then you know you need more RAM. And one of the things to keep in mind about new Mac laptops is that they have very fast SSD I/O, which also helps mitigate swap slowness.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#238

Post by guitarbill »

swozey wrote: post #233
guitarbill wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but 8G RAM is ridiculous 8G RAM is not ridiculous. Statements like this just show how far out of touch people are. Many workloads benefit from more RAM. And for some it's a hard requirement (e.g. VMs), but web browsing and a bit of office is not one of them. This is why virtual memory/swap space is a thing - and with an SSD that's also not as horrible as it used to be.

I have local "spin-up everything but pint-sized" dev environments for our developers to use and they far surpass 8gb even at the most minimal. I had my card out and was ready to buy the 2017 MBPr if it had 32gb to upgrade from my 2015 MBPr. Some people do actually need a lot of ram. Specifically, I work on kubernetes and docker and it's a hard requirement. I'm severely limited in my work now and have to continue usin…

Sure, which is why I mentioned VMs. But we're talking about the MacBook here, not even the MacBook Pro. Simply put the MB just isn't build for VM workloads. If the RAM weren't the bottleneck, the CPU or available storage space would be.

Besides, I don't buy it. I also use VMs. And the underlying host doesn't really matter, i.e. it doesn't really matter where the VM is run. So I don't quite understand why you'd spend $$$ on a beefy laptop instead of a nice laptop and a server. Maybe if your internet connection is really bad?

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#239

Post by aianus »

redwall_hp wrote: post #218
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a post-PC world. It's a post-everyone-needs-a-PC world but definitely not a post-PC world.

Something something Steve Jobs "truck" analogy. We're in a world where the masses don't need/want a PC (which is unfortunate, since that will arguably mean children will have less access to fully-functional computers in formative years when they may develop an interest in programming, but I digress). Apple, a company that claimed to grasp that concept just a few years ago, is completely failing on it right now. So, t…

> They're expensive and overkill for people who want luxury Facebook/word processing machines

They cost less than $2k. Amortized over 4+ years, they're extremely affordable for the middle class. People spend more on coffee.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#240

Post by swozey »

guitarbill wrote: post #238
swozey wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have local "spin-up everything but pint-sized" dev environments for our developers to use and they far surpass 8gb even at the most minimal. I had my card out and was ready to buy the 2017 MBPr if it had 32gb to upgrade from my 2015 MBPr. Some people do actually need a lot of ram. Specifically, I work on kubernetes and docker and it's a hard requirement. I'm severely limited in my work now and have to continue usin…

Sure, which is why I mentioned VMs. But we're talking about the MacBook here, not even the MacBook Pro. Simply put the MB just isn't build for VM workloads. If the RAM weren't the bottleneck, the CPU or available storage space would be. Besides, I don't buy it. I also use VMs. And the underlying host doesn't really matter, i.e. it doesn't really matter where the VM is run. So I don't quite understand why you'd spend…

The host OS doesn't matter, the ram does greatly matter. The delay in development between having to spin up and down servers for testing on aws/gcp is MASSIVE vs. launching tests via minikube.

Evidently I missed that this was about the Macbook and not pro, I couldn't care less about the Macbook.

I'm on a fully loaded i7 2015 MBPr and need a new one stat, new as in more ram (limited to 16gb).

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