Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

9to5mac.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 269 posts

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#71

Post by edblarney »

jclardy wrote: post #10

Makes sense with Apple's current terrible product line setup. Both the retina MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro are much more niche than their last generation. Also much more confusing as the MacBook Air successor is $500 more than the 13" Air was (The non-touchbar MacBook Pro is the spiritual successor to the air.) The true 13" Pro for 2016 is also $500 more than the last gen. The 12" MacBook is there...but it is a super…

I just bought a new Macbook, and I can say that it's a great product.

Probably the best on the market.

The problem I had was cost - they are over-priced.

Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive.

My Mac has 200-ish G hard-drive which is f-ing retardedly small. They should all have 1T. But if you want those upgrades you have to pay massively more.

I fundamentally believe the issue is simply price.

If you could get a sub-$2K macbook with 16G RAM, good CPU and lots of disk-space - this conversation would never be had.

I really do think Apple has the best boxes, but they are barely worth it, and just not worth it in many cases.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#72

Post by neutronicus »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #5

Back when I worked at Apple the dirty secret was that the cheapest models, despite all the marketing of the MacBook Pro, made up the majority of sales. Back then it was the white plastic MacBook but now it's the 11" MacBook Air that occupies that slot. That model and its crappy TN screen is vastly inferior and more expensive than similarly-sized ultrabooks. The only redeeming feature it has is MacOS. Instead of repla…

What Ultrabooks do you think are better bang for the buck?

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#73

Post by edblarney »

ceejayoz wrote: post #29
wodenokoto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I bought my current MacBook Pro (2009), it was the cheapest available amongst the updated pro's and it cost me $1.000 Apple simply don't offer that price point anymore. What used to be their low-price line of laptops - the MacBook, now starts at $1.300

Macbook Airs start at $999. Inflation adds about $120 to your $1k figure since 2009, too.

The cheapest macbook air is a pretty weak laptop. It's very light on specs, compared to similar products.

Yes - it's a good piece of kit - but maybe not worth the price.

To get decent specs you have to pay a lot for Apple and I think it's becoming a problem.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#74

Post by 010a »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #19

The biggest problem that Apple is creating for itself is not one that is being discussed directly in most of these threads: it's not about the loss in Mac sales, which they clearly don't give a damn about. It's the exodus of producers from their platform. Think about it. For those of you that were Mac fans before the iPhone and before it was cool to be so, who else do you know that used a Mac? Forget why, just who? T…

I have to disagree. Completely.

First: Your theory isn't new. It's been discussed to death here and elsewhere.

Second: There's no evidence that content creators are actually leaving the Mac. It's easy to look at the new machines and Apple's trends and conclude that, but go look on Youtube at any major content creator. FCPX is still popular. If not, Adobe on OSX is still very popular. I'm not suggesting that no one has left, but I don't think it's significant enough to move the dial.

Third: There is little evidence that their dedication to professional machines is wavering on a systemic level. Removing the 17"? Come _on_. That had to have been their worst selling model; anyone who needs a screen that large would just plug into an external monitor. Discontinuing the Mac Pro? It isn't discontinued; they've actually promised updates to desktops soon. Yes, they let it get old in the tooth for a while. But I will be willing to accept this argument only if 2017 passes us with no upgrades.

The MacBook Pro has its issues. It is, absolutely, ahead of its time with its port selection. The only port it is truly lacking that professionals should miss is the SD card slot, and I will grant you that is unfortunate and unlikely to be fixed. Weak processors? Go look at the Intel ARK and tell me what mobile processors Apple could have put in this machine but didn't. This is Intel's fault, not Apple's. Weak graphics card? Yup, I'll give it to you, a GTX 1050/1060 would have been incredible. No 32GB ram option? Unfortunate.

But the issues I am describing are not systemic. They are going to be fixed in the next gen model. The pains you're seeing today are just the "early adopter pains" we get with every brand new Apple product.

Fourth: I can literally tell you why their sales dropped 10%, right here. Ready? No MacBook Air refresh. No iMac refresh. No Mac Mini refresh. That's it.

Apple's Mac sales are not, in _any_ way, propped up by professionals. Don't flatter yourself and this industry with moving the needle at all on Apple's bottom line. They are propped up by average joe consumers, and this market segment was hurt very badly in 2016 through Apple's unwillingness to cater to them.

Apple's lack of updates to the Mac Pro has been unfortunate, but hasn't hurt their bottom line. Apple's lack of updates to the MBA (last update: March 2015), Mac Mini (last update: October 2014) and iMac (last update: October 2015) are literally what is causing this 10% drop. The machines are stale, and people know it.

Apple fixes this by refreshing their desktop lineup (which they have literally said they are going to do, and Apple _never_ tells us anything) and dropping the price of the MB/MBP (also seems likely).

Finally: I would remind you to not confuse "Apple is giving up on creatives" and "everyone else is getting better at servicing them." Microsoft has been doing a stellar job lately, and Windows and its accompanying hardware is better than it has ever been.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#75

Post by edblarney »

guelo wrote: post #53

Both Dell and Lenovo's websites are awful. They try so hard to segment the market that they make it almost impossible to shop their products. I want to buy but I can't figure out what they are selling.

"They try so hard to segment the market that they make it almost impossible to shop their products. I want to buy but I can't figure out what they are selling."

Bravo!

This is it.

So many manufacturers of so many things screw this up so bad.

I call it 'Sony-itis'.

They have massive segmentation, within that, so many variations, it's crazy.

I think it's an issue of culture: unless the change comes from the top, it will never happen.

All the MBA's in the world could not convince them to change, operationally.

I worked for a 'major' handset manufacturer that just made new products willy nilly. There was hardly any rhyme or reason.

They don't exist anymore, or rather, barely do.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#76

Post by [deleted] »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #68
feross wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want to write fast software, use a slow computer" - Dominic Tarr The 12" Macbook is the best computer I've ever owned. Switched to it from a 2014 Macbook Pro, and found it very easy to adjust. The only time it struggles a little bit is when I run Windows in VMware, on occasion. The biggest benefit of the Macbook 12" is that if software runs well on your computer, you know it's guaranteed to run extra buttery-…

It's a good quote, but I feel it reflects a time when I didn't also need to run a stack of Redis, RabbitMQ, Postgres and webserver apps on my development box.

[deleted]

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#77

Post by freehunter »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #5

Back when I worked at Apple the dirty secret was that the cheapest models, despite all the marketing of the MacBook Pro, made up the majority of sales. Back then it was the white plastic MacBook but now it's the 11" MacBook Air that occupies that slot. That model and its crappy TN screen is vastly inferior and more expensive than similarly-sized ultrabooks. The only redeeming feature it has is MacOS. Instead of repla…

Quite a few years ago I saw someone at college using a white plastic laptop and man I thought that looked sharp. I glanced at the top of it and saw it was a Mac. At the time I didn't own a Mac and I didn't follow their product lines, but that was a hell of a good looking laptop, I thought. That was actually the first time I'd ever seen a Macbook, I don't come from a very well-off or tech-forward area. Everyone at the time owned a Dell Inspiron 150x. When I looked it up I was really disappointed to see that it had been discontinued.

I have an aluminum Macbook and sure it's nice... but when I think about Macbooks, I think about that white plastic machine. Shiny, almost see-through. It really stood out to me in a world of dull metal and chunky black plastic and laser-etched designs on laptops. My 2015 looks nice, I guess, but in my mind it doesn't look nearly as nice as that shiny, translucent white Macbook I saw years ago.

Now, I never used one and I'm sure a lot of people here have, and I'm sure there are a lot of negative stories about them cracking or discoloring or being squeaky or something. But I still remember the first time I saw one, and it stuck with me. That was the same when I saw an aluminum Macbook, it was nice. They don't look all that special these days, the design is getting stale. Everyone has a Macbook-looking laptop, from a distance I can't tell the difference between a Samsung Chromebook and an 11" Macbook Air.

I hope they can wow us with a new design again in the future.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#78

Post by stevenh »

feross wrote: post #64
jclardy wrote: post #10

Makes sense with Apple's current terrible product line setup. Both the retina MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro are much more niche than their last generation. Also much more confusing as the MacBook Air successor is $500 more than the 13" Air was (The non-touchbar MacBook Pro is the spiritual successor to the air.) The true 13" Pro for 2016 is also $500 more than the last gen. The 12" MacBook is there...but it is a super…

"If you want to write fast software, use a slow computer" - Dominic Tarr The 12" Macbook is the best computer I've ever owned. Switched to it from a 2014 Macbook Pro, and found it very easy to adjust. The only time it struggles a little bit is when I run Windows in VMware, on occasion. The biggest benefit of the Macbook 12" is that if software runs well on your computer, you know it's guaranteed to run extra buttery-…

Slowness is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#79

Post by nkkollaw »

Not surprising.

Who wants to pay premium for old hardware?

I spilled coffee on my MacBook Air and had to replace it. I bought a used early 2015 MacBook Pro for 1000EUR from a guy who bought in 2015, the same that is sold today at the Apple Store for 1,500EUR.

I did think about buying the new MacBook Pro (of course without the touch bar), but I just felt stupid spending all that money for an OK laptop.

Re: Mac sales declined nearly 10% last year as Lenovo, Dell and others gained ground

#80

Post by freehunter »

potatosoup wrote: post #54
Kevin_S wrote: post #49

Just wanted to add an opinion you don't see as much here, as a non-developer. It's not just developers who are pretty upset about the new Macbook, myself and my fiance were both in the market, and my fiance used a MBP through college. She pretty much fought me on the new MBP until she tried it in store, and promptly was against it. She's going with a Surfacebook and I'll probably go with the new Dell XPS 15 with the…

What was she actually against in the new MBP? (New MBP user myself, don't like the touch bar, but otherwise a fine machine.)

Yeah I'd like to know the answer on that too. I have a 2015 that I like but I was in the store the other day and tried a 2016 and actually liked it. I have no reason to upgrade, but if I was buying one new and I didn't know the Internet hated it, I wouldn't be put off. That trackpad is HUGE!
Post reply on HN