EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff • Hacker News Board

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#201

Post by Diederich » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #169

Diederich wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is related to an observation I've made before. Name any country that's been as functional as the United States has been, given our size, and especially given the enormous amount of diversity we have? We've been doing the grinding, painful and hard work of real national diversity, at scale, for hundreds of years. We've gotten it wrong a lot; we're still getting a lot of it wrong. But here we are, perhaps the most…

The United States is an anomaly. It's a series of lucky breaks that resulted in an exceptional country being created and maintained. It started as a series of colonies that could have agreed to disagree. It grew through lucky aquisition: Florida from the Spanish, Alaska from the Russians, Louisiana from the French, Texas and California from Mexico. It split up, the Confederate States left, and was unified at great ri…

I agree with everything you said. We have been exceedingly lucky.

At the same time, we have gone through the hard and painful process of trying to make diversity work as I described, though it has been slow, incremental and still incomplete.

I don't know of any other nations that have done that.

Our luck has certainly enabled it!

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#202

Post by throwaway91111 » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #191

throwaway91111 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but I wasn't referring to democracy as a general concept, because that's useless. Why not just say "people vote"?

"Democracy" just means "government by the people". That's why we have different types of democracies, to tell them apart. If you actually meant a direct democracy, then you should have said it. Don't expect people to be able to read your mind and then get mad and snarky when they don't. We can only interpret what we read, so being specific that you mean a direct democracy when you say the word "democracy" in a politi…

And yet, it's not government by the people. It's government by representative.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#203

Post by astrodust » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #201

astrodust wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States is an anomaly. It's a series of lucky breaks that resulted in an exceptional country being created and maintained. It started as a series of colonies that could have agreed to disagree. It grew through lucky aquisition: Florida from the Spanish, Alaska from the Russians, Louisiana from the French, Texas and California from Mexico. It split up, the Confederate States left, and was unified at great ri…

I agree with everything you said. We have been exceedingly lucky. At the same time, we have gone through the hard and painful process of trying to make diversity work as I described, though it has been slow, incremental and still incomplete. I don't know of any other nations that have done that. Our luck has certainly enabled it!

Compared to some nations the US is extraordinarily diverse: Ireland, Norway, Fiji.

Compared to others it's practically homogeneous: India, Papua New Guinea.

For an example closer to home: Canada is probably more ethnically diverse than the United States and, Quebéc aside (which is sort of our lone-star province) has a lot more political cohesion. Toronto is vastly more ethnically diverse than New York City today despite New York having representation from every country in the world.

Similar factors are in play, though: Generally there's enough resources for everyone, so there's no need to fight for scraps.

The US has a lot of work to do to bring itself truly together. I just worry that things are going in the opposite direction now with infighting being encouraged to divide and conquer all those opposed to the current administration.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#204

Post by serge2k » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

throwaway91111 wrote: post #202

mynameisvlad wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Democracy" just means "government by the people". That's why we have different types of democracies, to tell them apart. If you actually meant a direct democracy, then you should have said it. Don't expect people to be able to read your mind and then get mad and snarky when they don't. We can only interpret what we read, so being specific that you mean a direct democracy when you say the word "democracy" in a politi…

And yet, it's not government by the people. It's government by representative.

Elected by the people.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#205

Post by Diederich » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 7:09 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #203

Diederich wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said. We have been exceedingly lucky. At the same time, we have gone through the hard and painful process of trying to make diversity work as I described, though it has been slow, incremental and still incomplete. I don't know of any other nations that have done that. Our luck has certainly enabled it!

Compared to some nations the US is extraordinarily diverse: Ireland, Norway, Fiji. Compared to others it's practically homogeneous: India, Papua New Guinea. For an example closer to home: Canada is probably more ethnically diverse than the United States and, Quebéc aside (which is sort of our lone-star province) has a lot more political cohesion. Toronto is vastly more ethnically diverse than New York City today desp…

> Compared to others it's practically homogeneous: India, Papua New Guinea

I think think about and study that, thank you.

> I just worry that things are going in the opposite direction now with infighting being encouraged to divide and conquer all those opposed to the current administration.

Aye..I think we're on the cusp of taking some steps back.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#206

Post by sctb » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

ebfe wrote: post #146

kbrwn wrote: post #13

It feels like such a strange time to be alive. Even if you disagree with the concept of man-made climate change the distortion of scientific studies seems like something that everybody can agree is wrong. So much of science is funded by govt grants. The idea that everything must conform to the view of the current administration or it is not worth funding seems dangerous and economically limiting.

If you or anybody else cannot imagine succumbing to this sort of blind rejection of scientific studies and would like to experience it firsthand, consider your attitude towards research into the relationship between race and IQ.

We've already asked you to stop abusing the site with primarily racial ideology, so we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email us at hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll post within the guidelines in the future.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#207

Post by throwaway91111 » Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 1:25 AM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #204

throwaway91111 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, it's not government by the people. It's government by representative.

Elected by the people.

Then say "governors by the people". Governors ain't government itself.

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#208

Post by ebfe » Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 1:55 AM UTC

sctb wrote: post #206

ebfe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you or anybody else cannot imagine succumbing to this sort of blind rejection of scientific studies and would like to experience it firsthand, consider your attitude towards research into the relationship between race and IQ.

We've already asked you to stop abusing the site with primarily racial ideology, so we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email us at hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll post within the guidelines in the future.

Surely you can understand why I might not want this attached to a normal account- I've had people harass my employer before over this.

I don't think I've been uncivil or unreasonable towards other users, and you don't seem to be saying as much. Is there a way to discuss this concept without breaking site rules, or is the concept itself what is prohibited?

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#209

Post by sedachv » Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #124

An official at EPA who worked under Obama isn't buying into this hysteria. > Longtime employees at three of the agencies — including some career environmental regulators who conceded that they remained worried about what President Trump might do on policy matters — said such orders were not much different from those delivered by the Obama administration as it shifted policies from the departing White House of George…

A friend of mine pointed out that Reagan's administration had attempted to shut down the EPA using the same tactics as Trump's administration is doing now:

http://www.cleanairwatch.org/2016/12/scott-pruitt-beware-les...

He also pointed out that Louis Cordia, who was behind the Burford EPA purges, is now working at the Heritate Foundation and advising the Trump administration.

Also here is a perspective from an anonymous EPA staffer:

So I work at the EPA and yeah it’s as bad as you are hearing:

The entire agency is under lockdown, the website, facebook, twitter, you name it is static and can’t be updated. All reports, findings, permits and studies are frozen and not to be released. No presentations or meetings with outside groups are to be scheduled.

Any Press contacting us are to be directed to the Press Office which is also silenced and will give no response.

All grants and contracts are frozen from the contractors working on Superfund sites to grad school students working on their thesis.

We are still doing our work, writing reports, doing cancer modeling for pesticides hoping that this is temporary and we will be able to serve the public soon. But many of us are worried about an ideologically-fueled purging and if you use any federal data I advise you gather what you can now.

We have been told the website is being reworked to reflect the new administration’s policy.

Feel free to copy and paste, you all pay for the government and you should know what’s going on. I am posting this as a fellow citizen and not in any sort of official capacity.

Even if you choose to disbelieve this, the actionable point right now is "if you use any federal data I advise you gather what you can now."

Re: EPA Science Under Scrutiny by Trump Political Staff

#210

Post by mynameisvlad » Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 9:46 AM UTC

throwaway91111 wrote: post #207

serge2k wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elected by the people.

Then say "governors by the people". Governors ain't government itself.

Dude you can debate until you're blue in the face but in the end, it's called a representative democracy for a reason. That's an accepted term in politics.

We have given you all the actual definitions on these terms and they show clearly that you're wrong. Just admit it and stop arguing this pointless debate. It's not that hard to do.