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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#341

Post by gumby »

throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

Don't worry, Australia, Germany and France would love to help you out (and Canada as mentioned). My mother was admitted to a US university in the 1950s but decided to go to Australia instead. (Good for me since I was born!)

Also even if you got here, depending on where that uni is located, your problems would either be over or just getting worse. E.g. there are periodic waves of violence against foreign students (Japanese in the 80s/90s; Middle East and Sikhs (??) in 00s and 10s) in certain states.

Things do change. When we first came to the US we landed in D.C. and drove north to find a hotel. My parents would not have been allowed to stay in the same hotel in Virgina. But now I live in the States and don't worry about that. I worry about other things but do believe that things will change for the better. This reaction is the last gasp of the old people.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#342

Post by coredog64 »

steveax wrote: post #76
mistermann wrote: post #15

This is obviously extremely unfortunate for those involved, I predict it will be very short lived but we'll have to wait and see. One thing I like about this sort of controversy though is perhaps some day, some people might start wondering who these mullahs are and how they came to be. Now that type of conversation would be rather uncomfortable, and I suspect is somewhat of an underlying cause of a lot of the hand wr…

Conspiracy theory? No. Conspiracy? Yes. I often wonder what the Middle East and Iran would look like today if the CIA and the Brits had not overthrown the democratically elected Mosaddegh government.

We should go even further. A bunch of lines were drawn post WW1 to punish Germany and her allies. There wasn't much thought put into it beyond short term gain and it created some awful situations like that of the Kurds in Iraq.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#343

Post by thweerty »

guildwriter wrote: post #218
StavrosK wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it. You say that, but I'm afraid the implication might be "short of doing anything that matters". Where are the protests? Why aren't people in the streets? Don't make the same mistake Germans did under Hitler. The government relies on each step affecting few enough people that nobody will be bothered enough to march, and after a thousand…

There were already many different large scale protests across the nation several days ago. Those took months to organize and set up. Logistics alone makes another immediate large scale protest unlikely. The exception is unless there is clear and demonstrable malfeasance like in the case of S. Korea's president. If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doub…

It appears that they only want Muslims from countries that are either known state funders of terrorism or are being farmed for Cocaine.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#344

Post by justacat »

mikeash wrote: post #300

Holy shit: > U.S. permanent residents (green card holders) who are outside of the United States may be barred from reentry. That's huge. I don't mean to diminish the importance of banning new immigrants and visitors on a religious basis, that's bad too. But banning people who have already legally immigrated from re-entering the country is completely nuts. There are no doubt people who have lived in this country for d…

I was confused as to where this quote was coming from at first, but figured it out: https://www.niacaction.org/what-does-trumps-ban-on-iranians-...

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#345

Post by edmccard »

guildwriter wrote: post #326
edmccard wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand how people who can understand and believe in things like quantum and multiple realities think that the only outcomes our world are strictly binary: Nazism or Progressive Liberalism. That's a bit of a strawman, I think; no-one I've heard of, who thinks Trump is a fascist, arrived at that conclusion by saying "well he's not a progressive liberal so all that's left is nazi". It's been more like (whet…

That's fair, let me go into more detail. I know a lot of people who fervently believe that Trump is the second coming of Hitler. If you dig around on Twitter it won't be long before you find this sentiment practically everywhere. It's not "could be a fascist" it is "actually is a fascist and we need to actively resist". This is not unique to Donald Trump. W Bush is the most recent example where Bush=Hitler was practi…

>I think it's fair to argue that it's a tenant of faith for liberals that all conservatives hate gays, hate minorities, hate women, etc.

Well, to paraphrase your next sentence: "that these people exist in the Democratic party is impossible to deny, to tar and feather the entire Democratic party as this way is how we get to the binary world view."

In particular, I am a liberal in a rural Pennsylvania county that voted 75% for Trump, and I know that my conservative neighbors do not hate gays, minorities, and women. (Most people I've talked to were responsive to his position on coal mining; I'm not sure what will happen in four years if those jobs don't come back.)

>This is why I say people are expressing a binary worldview. From what I can see, many are not expressing that there could be a third possibility. Or fourth. Or a myriad of options.

You mentioned Twitter; if Trump being a Nazi is one bad option, and there are x-1 other good options, I think it's only natural that the kind of people who like to tweet are going to tweet about what they think is the most dangerous one.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#346

Post by jlarocco »

> This time, it’s taken just five days, since the hostile takeover of the US by its worst elements

Stopped reading there. I don't agree with his immigration policy at all, but we voted and Trump won fair and square.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#347

Post by wfo »

Amezarak wrote: post #269
D_Alex wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is there really a shortage of smart and skilled people? Hell yes, and there always will be, for the right values of "smart" and "skilled". >Given the low pay for many scientific positions... etc The sad fact is that the low pay you mention causes so many really smart people to turn away from science as a career. >Maybe the upside is that with the tap of smart people turned down a little, conditions will improve for…

If there is a shortage, then why aren't they paid more highly and treated better?

Because if you want to actually do science it doesn't really produce profit, it produces knowledge and results which someone else may use for profit decades or centuries later and the idea of "shortages" or "supply" or "demand" are all ideas that come from the market which is not relevant here.

There's high pay for brilliant scientists who want to work on weapons manufacturing or oil drilling or high frequency trading or building scalable advertising platforms but not for doing actual science.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#348

Post by tboyd47 »

Melchizedek wrote: post #113
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. But as long as Saudis are omitted from this regulation, it's pretty ineffective. Then again, how much of "terrorism legislation" is actually preventing terrorism, as opposed to extending the powers of police and p…

Regardless of the hijackers motives, Saudi Arabia is by far the worst country when it comes to exporting and supporting terror. Iran is an island of sanity by comparison, and there are no Shia terrorist organizations nowadays (Hezbollah are not terrorists - they don't blow up random civilians).

Sadr's death squads and Houthis.

If blowing up random civilians is the definition of terror then I'm sure the Syrian government would qualify.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#349

Post by harmegido »

wfunction wrote: post #156
jekdoce wrote: post #11

Advice from a high-level staffer for a Senator: There are two things that everyone concerned should be doing all the time right now, and they're by far the most important things. You should NOT be bothering with online petitions or emailing. 1. The best thing you can do to be heard and get your congressperson to pay attention is to have face-to-face time - if they have town halls, go to them. Go to their local office…

Question: what if your representative already supports what you're saying? Like what if they're already Democrat? What can they even do? The Republicans are the ones who seem to be supporting this. That's what's always stumped me about this advice.

I would also like an answer to this. Most people that are opponents of these sorts of policies live in areas that are represented by senators/congresspeople that have a similar view.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#350

Post by thweerty »

edmccard wrote: post #292
guildwriter wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been screaming that the Republican party is the Nazi party since the days of Reagan. So far history has held this up to be absolutely not true. Forgive me if I'm a bit incredulous and give Trump the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise. Here's another way to look at it: "I know you've taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall. It always gets bloody, always. It's the threat of…

>I don't understand how people who can understand and believe in things like quantum and multiple realities think that the only outcomes our world are strictly binary: Nazism or Progressive Liberalism. That's a bit of a strawman, I think; no-one I've heard of, who thinks Trump is a fascist, arrived at that conclusion by saying "well he's not a progressive liberal so all that's left is nazi". It's been more like (whet…

Trump was a master manipulator. He barely had a policy dirrction. Ironically it's conservatism that loses in the long run.

Be in no doubt that such missteps will form the hadokens by which conservatism's will be k.o ed by the libs.

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