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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#271

Post by guildwriter »

StavrosK wrote: post #265
guildwriter wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take the metaphor further, the really strong antibiotics have a chance to destroy the kidneys, making you a permanent dialysis case.

Which relates to the original point how? If you protest too much, your country will end up needing permanent aid from other countries in order to even stay together? I feel that people shouldn't be extending an analogy without being clear on how it relates to the original point.

If you can only talk divisively and dismiss the concerns of people who don't agree with you, then you will continue to harm the unity of this country. Even if we don't agree with one another, we still should be able to live with one another peacefully. That is not to say stop protesting and engaging people. It means that people need to stop over generalizing and practice some empathy with others. It means not demonizing people who don't agree with you and sometimes it means just walking away instead of taking the swing.

I think of Mr. Rogers a lot these days and how he called everyone his neighbor. In a sense, we live in a world now where we actually all can be neighbors. And good neighbors don't treat each other like enemies.

If people truly believe that "Love Trumps Hate" and that's not just a slogan, people need to start acting that way.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#272

Post by rtx »

jkimmel wrote: post #45
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

I am deeply saddened to read this. I apologize, on behalf of the country. Please know that the majority of people in the US do not support this policy. We want to see you reach your potential. We want to benefit from the talent you would bring. Many of us will be working hard to fix this for the next several years. I'm sorry I couldn't do more to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Why? Everyone should not get a visa. Country should have a right to decide whom they let in. I never heard anyone complaining when the rich got visa more easily than poor.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#273

Post by coldtea »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #258
coldtea wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. Saudis have a looooong history of funding all kinds of terrorist groups across the whole muslim world.

Sure. They basically created and funded al Qaida in the 1980s to counter the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Then bin Laden came back to Saudi Arabia and offered to help against Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, and the Saudis told him to go away. After that they became more enemies than friends, but with the weird twist that the Saudi government wants to appear ideologically relatively aligned with al Qaida, such that…

It's not just Qaida though, they sponsor all kinds of Sunni extremists all over the globe.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#274

Post by guildwriter »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #252
guildwriter wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the sunk cost fallacy proves what I'm trying to say? Most people really struggle with that sort of thing. It's one of the reasons why behavioral economics has taken off in recent history. People are not perfect actors. Of course there are people with problems who don't turn to drugs that are also poor. The point I'm trying to make is that saying the best and only solution isn't necessarily to say tha…

...the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do...people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes, while many Trump voters prefer to sit at home refusing to work and doing meth. I was making the following core points: 1) the Trump voters apatters was defending suffer mainly from self-inflicted probl…

Some Mexicans are willing to do what it takes. Don't overgeneralize. It's not like the entire population of Mexico is in the US right now. Races and nationalities are not homogeneous.

Is there a segment of the population blaming others for their problems? Yes.

Are they totally wrong? No. They're not entirely right but they aren't entirely wrong.

Is it all self inflicted problems? Hell no. There is no way I would argue that. It is simply factually incorrect. People working in the auto factories with a high school education aren't responsible when the price of steel craters. Assuming that everyone has to go college is a tenant of faith that needs to change.

Characterizing a significant portion Trump voters as lazy meth heads is an incredible generalization. From a sheer numbers perspective I don't doubt it's sizable, but that would be in the sense that 100k is a large number. I think people want to work. I don't think people know where to look or what to do.

Is Trump exploiting these people to gain power?

As far as I can tell, in the usual way that politicians do things. Whether or not Trump can solve their problems is not something I feel I can predict. That's not to say I think Trump will be some kind of economic Jesus. I mainly feel that the future is incredibly difficult to predict and usually it's the result that no one expects that ends up being true.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#275

Post by eternalban »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #42
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

On behalf of my fellow Americans, please allow me to offer you our deepest apology. Please know that most of our country doesn't hate or fear you. We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it.

I am a naturalized American citizen, born in Iran. Up to yesterday I was giving this administration the benefit of the doubt. But an administration that demands political vetting of scientific results tripped my wire.

Now I am not sure what to make of our President mentioning "citizen, good citizens" in his remarks to DHS. After all, "no one expects the spanish inquisition".

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#276

Post by mmrezaie »

panic wrote: post #174
mmrezaie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know any interview or documentary of talking to samples of these populations? I wonder very much what they think. The interviews so far for me personally were showing that they are "morally deaf", but I am sure that this is not all the story (I probably living in my bubble).

This guy drove through the Southeast and talked to a bunch of Trump supporters: http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/08/02/listening-to...

Thanks, now I want to replace my bubble with a bulletproof west.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#277

Post by JoeAltmaier »

guildwriter wrote: post #274
yummyfajitas wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do...people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes, while many Trump voters prefer to sit at home refusing to work and doing meth. I was making the following core points: 1) the Trump voters apatters was defending suffer mainly from self-inflicted probl…

Some Mexicans are willing to do what it takes. Don't overgeneralize. It's not like the entire population of Mexico is in the US right now. Races and nationalities are not homogeneous. Is there a segment of the population blaming others for their problems? Yes. Are they totally wrong? No. They're not entirely right but they aren't entirely wrong. Is it all self inflicted problems? Hell no. There is no way I would argu…

To answer the last question (can he solve) the answer is probably no. Simply because he has no skills in negotiating Washington whatsoever. Its only been a few days but so far its all "sign anything put in front of him". Having no plan except to win the Presidency, and that's been accomplished, I think he's running on fumes.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#278

Post by rpiguy »

helpfulanon wrote: post #173
guildwriter wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sentiments like yours do not help the current situation where everyone is talking past each other. Demonizing and labeling people like others is not the solution. Characterizing the motivations of 60+ million people as racist is the epitome of mental weakness. How do you expect to solve xenophobic behavior when you are employing the exact same mental processes? All you are doing is perpetuating the cycle of hatred. E…

You make a noble point, but it will not change anything at this stage. I am human. As are all of us. My well of empathy for Trump's people has gone completely bone dry. I am past the tipping point. They elected an egotistical reality TV star, backed by a hostile foreign government, to the White House and he's taking a wrecking ball to every institution of federal government exactly as one would have expected him to.…

No Republican was duped. He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do. Temporary ban on immigration, build a wall, take an axe to the bloated federal government, can the TPP, next week we should get our first conservative supreme court nominee. Even better it is driving leftists into a rage, showing everyone where the real bullying and violence comes from - the Left! I have never been more hopeful about the future!

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#279

Post by maxerickson »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #213
StavrosK wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it. You say that, but I'm afraid the implication might be "short of doing anything that matters". Where are the protests? Why aren't people in the streets? Don't make the same mistake Germans did under Hitler. The government relies on each step affecting few enough people that nobody will be bothered enough to march, and after a thousand…

There are fairly large and violent protests against Trump. His supporters are regularly attacked. This has been true ever since he was a serious candidate. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/riots-break-out-wash... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/anti-trum... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillary-supporters-c... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/0... In addit…

I'm pretty sure Spencer got punched in the face because he's a Nazi.

As for the rest of it, it's a little hilarious to act like the non violent protests aren't the majority of activity. Just the Women's marches (which aren't just about Trump but are obviously responsive to his presidency) were more in number, both location wise and participation wise, than any violent actions that have happened. If you want to limit it to immigration protests, the non violent protests yesterday had higher participation than the totality of anti-Trump violence (http://dcist.com/2017/01/theres_a_rally_planned_at_white_hou... ).

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#280

Post by andrewblossom »

StavrosK wrote: post #196
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On behalf of my fellow Americans, please allow me to offer you our deepest apology. Please know that most of our country doesn't hate or fear you. We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it.

> We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it. You say that, but I'm afraid the implication might be "short of doing anything that matters". Where are the protests? Why aren't people in the streets? Don't make the same mistake Germans did under Hitler. The government relies on each step affecting few enough people that nobody will be bothered enough to march, and after a thousand…

There were protests last night in New York City: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/new-york-tru...
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