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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#161

Post by cancancan »

The more things change, the more they stay the same.[1]

In his 2007 interview[2,3] general Wesley Clark spoke about the plan to take out 7 countries in 5 years (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Iran). Bush went to war with Iraq. Obama ravaged Libya and Syria. Six of those seven countries are on the Trump's visa ban list. At least he has no plans for new wars, for now I guess.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd6vR1J0_6A

[2] interview transcript: https://www.democracynow.org/2007/3/2/gen_wesley_clark_weigh...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfx2vtq_HDM

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#162

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

tallanvor wrote: post #109
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

I can't say much more than I'm sorry. Remember: Donald Trump does not represent the will of the American people. He won the electoral college, but around 2.8 million more people voted for Clinton than voted for him. He does not represent our values, our morals, or our view of where the country should be going. He represents those straight white males who don't want to adapt to the future, who don't want to give up th…

Your post is racist, sexist, and factually wrong. Trump represents a repressed ideological view that has failed to be directly engaged, instead preferring othering and slander, as you demonstrated here.

The left-wing in the US is going to continue to lose elections as long as they prefer slander to understanding why people disagree with them and why their racist and sexist platform is falling out of favor.

I am for a lot of progressive policies, but the Democrats jumped the shark in to advocating bigotry, slander, and nonsense.

Recent example: 1 in 10 posters I saw at the women's march was outright sexist, yet 3 in 10 posters were bemoaning the "sexism" of other people for having similar numbers at their marches. Remove the plank from your own eye, etc etc.

Ed: I would genuinely enjoy someone explaining how dismissing the right-wing as sexist is any different than dismissing all of feminism as sexist because there exist sexist feminists.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#163

Post by junto »

guildwriter wrote: post #142
dmode wrote: post #135

It's amazing that some nations are deemed terrorist by American government, which itself is responsible for the deaths of most innocent civilians over the last century. Starting with dropping the atomic bomb in Hiroshima, funding Mujhadeen on Afghanistan, installing Shah in Iran, toppling Saddam Hussein, Indirectly funding terrorism in Kashmir, and all the mess in South America. What's the best guess ? 10 million inn…

Still not as many as Russia did during the same time period. Stalin alone blows that total right out of the water. Mao and the Khmer Rouge are right behind him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_... None of this takes away from the morally questionable actions of the US. But saying the US is responsible for the most innocent civilian casualties in the last half century is not true.

I'm not sure we should make it a competition!

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#164

Post by moomin »

jasonmp85 wrote: post #128
HeavenBanned wrote: post #2

My father successfully brought over two of our relatives from Iran during the Obama presidency (thanks Obama). They were a doctor and a professional soccer player. However, the other application for his older sister and my mother's brother has been processing for nearly 20 years. She's nearing her 70s. And my mother's brother has all but lost hope. Looks like it's not going to ever happen under Mr. Trump. Oh well. I…

That penultimate paragraph. Jesus Christ.

I'm reminded of something I read by people who were in the cultural revolution. They always convinced themselves that Mao had bad advisers and they'd get purged soon. Took decades to twig that the problem was Mao himself.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#165

Post by [deleted] »

dannylandau wrote: post #102
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

This might sound like a crazy idea, but why not try applying to a few Israeli universities: Tel Aviv University, Weizmann Institute, Hebrew University and Technion are considered to pretty top notch for Computer science and have a few Turing award winners. You'd be surprised that Israeli academics tend to be very welcoming of students from all over the world.

[deleted]

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#166

Post by guildwriter »

grey-area wrote: post #86
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Does the President have the power to unilaterally impose exit-visa requirements?

This is a good question. Obama claimed the president has the power to assassinate american citizens without trial and Trump is claiming further powers over immigration, science and the media. None of these things should be the sole purview of the president, this is why rule via executive orders is so dangerous. It would lead to the end of the republic. The American republic now resembles the late roman one, complete…

This is being exacerbated by the increasing factionalism within the US itself. I'm starting to understand better and better why Washington warned us of political parties in his farwell address

"Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and the duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#167

Post by tajen »

coldtea wrote: post #103
matthewbauer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the executive's power. There is literally nothing that can be done about it for the next 4 years besides try to change Trump's mind (or pray he does something impeachable).

> There is literally nothing that can be done about it for the next 4 years Actually mass protests to the level of e.g. the French May of 68 might very well bring down a government. But that is for a determined population.

Except in France, May 68, De Gaulle (conservatist) wasn't ousted, he even came back in favourable position after 3 days off the grid: He threatened to use the État d'Urgence against the strikers, dissolved the Assembly and the new election yielded 353 of 486 seats in his favour. People, at the end, voted for security.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#168

Post by moomin »

guildwriter wrote: post #150
helpfulanon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really truly do not care at all about the sensitivities of Trump supporters at this point.

Sentiments like yours do not help the current situation where everyone is talking past each other. Demonizing and labeling people like others is not the solution. Characterizing the motivations of 60+ million people as racist is the epitome of mental weakness. How do you expect to solve xenophobic behavior when you are employing the exact same mental processes? All you are doing is perpetuating the cycle of hatred. E…

People have been racist throughout history. The majority of people. When did the majority suddenly stop? There's no mental weakness involved in describing things as they are.

In practice, this isn't the case. Racism just became something to be ashamed of, so now we can't discuss racism openly for fear of offending racists. At least the "rednecks" are honest about it.

And I hate to tell you, they're not interested in dialogue. They've got enough numbers, districting advantages and voter suppression laws that they don't care what you think.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#169

Post by Gustomaximus »

digitalengineer wrote: post #159
dannylandau wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might sound like a crazy idea, but why not try applying to a few Israeli universities: Tel Aviv University, Weizmann Institute, Hebrew University and Technion are considered to pretty top notch for Computer science and have a few Turing award winners. You'd be surprised that Israeli academics tend to be very welcoming of students from all over the world.

That is not without danger, I believe. Having Israeli stamps in your Iranien passport...

Wrong. Israel will stamp a separate piece of paper to leave in your passport during your visit for exactly this reason.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#170

Post by mmrezaie »

guildwriter wrote: post #160
panic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only relevant fact here is that millions more people voted against Trump than for him. The top reason people voted for Trump wasn't to support him or his policies, it was that he wasn't Clinton ( http://www.people-press.org/2016/09/21/in-their-own-words-wh... ). His approval rating is below 50% ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-app... ). Trump doesn't represent the majority in any sense o…

That's a good way to sweep data like this under the rug: (Left percent is Clinton, Right percent is Trump) White men 31% 63% White women 43 53 White women college graduates 51 45 White women non-college graduates 34 62 White men college graduates 39 54 White men non-college graduates 23 72 ( https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-couldnt-win-ove... ) Like it or not, the fact of the matter is that claiming that…

Do you know any interview or documentary of talking to samples of these populations? I wonder very much what they think. The interviews so far for me personally were showing that they are "morally deaf", but I am sure that this is not all the story (I probably living in my bubble).
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