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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#111

Post by refurb »

eva1984 wrote: post #54
Animats wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US gets only 8.1% of its oil from Saudi Arabia now, and that's dropping each year. The US is at last in a position to tell Saudi Arabia where to get off.

Saudi is a big buyer of US weapons. Considering how hard Trump tries to please and borrow influence from military, I doubt he is going to do anything about it. Race and religion matters, if you are not in the league, you better make sure you have power or money, or something to offer. At least to me, that is what Trump believes.

Why would the US military care about selling weapons? They are made by private companies.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#112

Post by CptJamesCook »

People seem more upset that Trump is not letting people into the country than that Obama has been dropping bombs on 6 of these countries.

I'm not wild about the Trump immigration ban on these countries, but I really, really hope he ends these wars.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#113

Post by Melchizedek »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #46
salimmadjd wrote: post #9

Trump is ostensibly using the 9/11 play card to justify banning few muslim countries [0]. This is obviously a lie, since most of 911 hijackers were Saudis and his executive order is not banning the Saudis. I'm guessing on the strength of the Saudi lobby in DC [1] AND/OR Trump's potential business conflict in Saudi Arabia [2]. [0] https://www.scribd.com/document/337545704/Draft-Executive-Or... [1] https://en.wikipedia…

It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. But as long as Saudis are omitted from this regulation, it's pretty ineffective. Then again, how much of "terrorism legislation" is actually preventing terrorism, as opposed to extending the powers of police and p…

Regardless of the hijackers motives, Saudi Arabia is by far the worst country when it comes to exporting and supporting terror. Iran is an island of sanity by comparison, and there are no Shia terrorist organizations nowadays (Hezbollah are not terrorists - they don't blow up random civilians).

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#114

Post by kazagistar »

matthewbauer wrote: post #91
_m8fo wrote: post #12

I abhor Trump, but something about this statement irks me: > To the Trump regime, I make one request: if you ever decide that it’s the policy of the US government to deport my PhD students, then deport me first. I’m practically begging you: come to my house, arrest me, revoke my citizenship, and tear up the awards I’ve accepted at the White House and the State Department. I’d consider that to be the greatest honor of…

This is the executive's power. There is literally nothing that can be done about it for the next 4 years besides try to change Trump's mind (or pray he does something impeachable).

Well, he is a bit of a populist, so if you convince enough people, he'll probably go with the flow, on some things at least.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#115

Post by refurb »

zyxzkz wrote: post #49
Animats wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US gets only 8.1% of its oil from Saudi Arabia now, and that's dropping each year. The US is at last in a position to tell Saudi Arabia where to get off.

It's a political thing. Oil is a fungible resource. Saudi Arabia helps control the market. US doesn't want to lose that power by pissing them off. As oil goes, so goes the world.

US fracking pissed Saudi Arabia off big time. The gov't didn't seem to mind.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#116

Post by soheil »

panic wrote: post #106
soheil wrote: post #99

This is part of the game that must be played to win against the government of Iran, people of that country have been treated like pawns in a chess game for long, certainly this is not something new. While the outrage is understandable, policy should not be made based on how it makes people feel. Iran is a country that deserves so much more, but it is seized by a ruling elite that does not share its values. I wish peo…

What exactly is being won here?

The Iranians right to freedom and the control of the region and its resources.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#117

Post by mars4rp »

guildwriter wrote: post #98
mars4rp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing is different than terrorism, US military is involved in killing in many countries as well!

Are you seriously equivocating the US Military which has specific RoEs and people who deliberately target civilians as a means to achieve their goals? That argument does not pass the smell test. Iran has been sponsoring and supplying if not actively participating in terrorist attacks going back decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quds_Force#Activities…

I am not saying Iran is not involved, I am just saying US is doing the same thing. Keep in mind, Iran is not doing the bombing herself, it supports groups that are doing the attacks. US is supporting groups and governments that killd lots of people. How they are different?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#118

Post by scrollaway »

thowfaraway wrote: post #47

It would be healthier for everyone if there was less speculative outrage. This doesn't affect anyone in the country. It just says if you are trying to get a visa from a country where we think there is a terrorism risk, that country needs to be able to provide screening info on the person, or else we won't provide a visa. It is targeting Syrian refugees, not Iranian PhDs.

That's a really loose interpretation of what this is.

It must be comfortable not being affected. You get to speak on everybody else's behalf and tell them they're not affected either.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#119

Post by shams93 »

orbifold wrote: post #55
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

Try to come to Germany, lots of Iranian expats study and work here. There are a few very good CS programs aswell (TU Munich for example). Most Phd positions come with a salary of ~1700-3400€ a month and there are no significant tuition fees. You might need to do a two year master degree first though, those are usually not funded, but there are no tuition fees either. Courses on the Phd and Masters level are taught in…

Google even has a location in Germany so if you were planning on getting a PHD in the US and then moving into working for Google most likely you could take the same kind of path in Germany but without the tremendous education debt.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#120

Post by soheil »

EGreg wrote: post #110
soheil wrote: post #99

This is part of the game that must be played to win against the government of Iran, people of that country have been treated like pawns in a chess game for long, certainly this is not something new. While the outrage is understandable, policy should not be made based on how it makes people feel. Iran is a country that deserves so much more, but it is seized by a ruling elite that does not share its values. I wish peo…

They used to have a democracy until they tried to nationalize their oil industry. Then the CIA and British intelligence engineered a coup and installed a Shah that gave good oil prices. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

Yes, but we find ourselves in this situation now, the current U.S. administration certainly had nothing to do with the coup. Bad decisions maybe were made but we cannot continue to blame U.S. policy as a whole over those mistakes.
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