Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

First they came for the Iranians

scottaaronson.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 460 posts

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#71

Post by boona »

threeseed wrote: post #14

Such a cynical yet poorly thought out policy. Firstly, many people involved in terrorist incidents are natural born citizens of allied countries. So are we going to ban all French or Belgium citizens given they have been shown to harbor terrorists ? It's clear that Trump/Bannon desperately want a Muslim ban as opposed to a Iran/Iraq/etc ban. Secondly, this is going to alienate moderate Muslims who Western intelligenc…

> many terrorists involved in incidents are natural born citizens of allied countries.

Stated differently, the majority are made up of muslims that have been in the western world for more than one generation and have still not assimilated. If feel that you're making a stronger case for limiting muslim immigration.

> this is going to alienate moderate Muslims who Western intelligence agencies have unanimously and categorically stated are the only people capable of solving this problem of radicalization.

Would it not be wise for the west to wait until moderate muslims get their house in order before opening their borders?

All that being said, I don't support a unilateral ban on muslims, I think it's stupid. What I think is even more stupid though is how the left is trying to compare Trump to Hitler. Especially considering that we wants to give greater access to the press of diverging viewpoints and is building a larger building to accommodate those people, while Obama only gave media access to outlets that presented him in favorable light and severely limited access to the only conservative news station (FOX). He wants the average citizen to have greater access to firearms which is our final defense against a tyrannical government, while the left have been fighting to take away peoples 2nd amendments rights. He wants to de-regulated the economy by quote "75%", while the left want to take greater and greater control.

I'm not saying that leftists are like Hitler, because I don't resort to school yard name calling, but saying that Trump is like Hitler is just the left going absolutely bonkers when it comes to losing the election, and seeing public opinion shifting away from the politically correct non-sense that's been pluaging public discourse.

I use to be a leftist, but I hate what the left have become, I don't even know what they stand for anymore, and behavior like this just pushes me further and further away.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#72

Post by mars4rp »

thowfaraway wrote: post #47

It would be healthier for everyone if there was less speculative outrage. This doesn't affect anyone in the country. It just says if you are trying to get a visa from a country where we think there is a terrorism risk, that country needs to be able to provide screening info on the person, or else we won't provide a visa. It is targeting Syrian refugees, not Iranian PhDs.

My brother's fiance is iranian and studying in Italy, this will definitely affect them! Tell this to my brother!

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#73

Post by [deleted] »

thowfaraway wrote: post #64
helpfulanon wrote: post #35

What's more worrisome is how fervently anti-science the new administration is. Academics may eventually be persecuted in the US across the board - as they are already at the EPA, USDA etc - and regardless of citizenship. I firmly believe anyone with a brain should begin making contingency plans to regroup somewhere like Australia or Japan, outside of the reaches of far-right populism. An Erdogan-style academic purge…

An Erdogan style academic purge already happened. By the left in this country. http://www.wsj.com/articles/my-unhappy-life-as-a-climate-her...

[deleted]

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#74

Post by NicoJuicy »

throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

Europe still has some of the best universities and allowance programs :)

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#75

Post by tritosomal »

inopinatus wrote: post #24
devoply wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't mess with the Saudis. But we sure can ban the people they are bombing to hell, you know the Yemenis with British made bombs no less. And ban all the other people whose countries we helped destroy, you know just to add insult to injury. Really the best way to make people think we the vanguards of freedom. I am sure though Trump has some business dealing with the Saudis, I think there is a Trump hotel in Dubai. h…

Dubai is not in Saudi Arabia. It's in the UAE. However his family have expressed interest in building hotels in Saudi Arabia. My guess though was the omission has more to do with energy price stability and/or arms exports.

Yeah, as this fiasco unfolds, the last thing we need is people lumping countries together while complaining about other people lumping countries together.

Dubai is a city in a different country. Same peninsula, but there's like seven countries dividing up that chunk of land.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#76

Post by steveax »

mistermann wrote: post #15

This is obviously extremely unfortunate for those involved, I predict it will be very short lived but we'll have to wait and see. One thing I like about this sort of controversy though is perhaps some day, some people might start wondering who these mullahs are and how they came to be. Now that type of conversation would be rather uncomfortable, and I suspect is somewhat of an underlying cause of a lot of the hand wr…

Conspiracy theory? No. Conspiracy? Yes. I often wonder what the Middle East and Iran would look like today if the CIA and the Brits had not overthrown the democratically elected Mosaddegh government.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#77

Post by pknerd »

>not Saudi Arabia, the cradle of Wahhabist terrorism.

I read it and it seems Author was OK with it if KSA was banned by Trump.

Author is biased or innocent as he has no idea of terrorism promoted by Iran in Syria and Iraq.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#78

Post by ebspelman »

thowfaraway wrote: post #47

It would be healthier for everyone if there was less speculative outrage. This doesn't affect anyone in the country. It just says if you are trying to get a visa from a country where we think there is a terrorism risk, that country needs to be able to provide screening info on the person, or else we won't provide a visa. It is targeting Syrian refugees, not Iranian PhDs.

>It is targeting Syrian refugess, not Iranian PhDs.

There are seven countries targeted in this edict. Why the other six if it's actually focused on a single one?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#79

Post by VickBear »

throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

I would bet you will still be able to attend soon. If you read the draft of the executive order you'd see that it is a temporary ban until they can start the improved vetting process. Your hopes should be way higher!

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#80

Post by Gargoyle »

There is this section in the draft order, which presumably could allow for phd students to enter the US as being in the national interest.

(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) ofthis section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.

Post reply on HN