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What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

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Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#91

I can relate to this, though my situation is a little weirder than most. My parents were immigrants and we were very poor when I was younger. They became doctors sometime around middle school, so we effectively shifted up to upper-middle class. Our quality of life changed in a few ways - didn't have to think about the cost of healthcare or school. But we also didn't start buying fancy clothes, cars, or food. My paren…

> It really does taking meeting someone face-to-face to realize that they're not so different from you

Idk, from my Ivy league experience many of them are in fact completely different from you. Many of them are not, but many are. "Oh we're all the same" is too much of a generalization. I'll jog my memory a bit, although many are extreme data points that still come to mind years after...

I had a friend (guy) who would enjoy sitting and making fun of people for the way they dressed, which was usually just them looking poor or working class. To me that was new, the idea that some guys at 18, 19, 20 spend a lot on clothes and snark at the way other guys dress.

I had another friend who would invite a huge group of us to VIP bottle service at a club every so often, dropping maybe 4, 5, 6 thousand on a Saturday, but then would occasionally point at someone, usually someone he didn't like, and say "Hey - why don't you chip in" and put them on the hook for 800 dollars.

I remember staring in disbelief when I learned some guy in my building would order in sushi in the mornings to his room instead of going to the dining hall. (Of course, dropping $35 on a Postmates delivery for one is not unusual for tech workers in SF today, but at 18/19, and many years before Postmates, it felt like they were living on another planet). Another would just take off to Tokyo for a weekend if he felt like he 'needed a break', and other students, usually rich girls, would fawn over how "deep" he must be, his feeling the need to fly off to Tokyo, etc.. Someone else in that building also installed a stripper pole in his room, and not surprisingly a lot of girls who were attracted to his levels of "richness" and "lifestyle" actually went over to indulge him.

They formed their own "fraternities" although some were kicked off campus because, of course, cocaine. (Cocaine and richness is another topic). Additionally one of the super rich guy frats was one that had the roofie reputation. Another had the asshole reputation. I just remember going to one of their parties for 'rush' freshmen year and basically getting laughed at for the cheap suit I was wearing.

That all said, of course there were many jovial, standup guys from rich families who try to relate to everyone, who maintain an ironic distance from their "richness"... but my Ivy experience (which was maybe more unique to this particular Ivy), which I enjoyed very much, still exposed me to a lot of guys I could never relate to nor would want to.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#92

I can relate to this, though my situation is a little weirder than most. My parents were immigrants and we were very poor when I was younger. They became doctors sometime around middle school, so we effectively shifted up to upper-middle class. Our quality of life changed in a few ways - didn't have to think about the cost of healthcare or school. But we also didn't start buying fancy clothes, cars, or food. My paren…

> It really does taking meeting someone face-to-face to realize that they're not so different from you Idk, from my Ivy league experience many of them are in fact completely different from you. Many of them are not, but many are. "Oh we're all the same" is too much of a generalization. I'll jog my memory a bit, although many are extreme data points that still come to mind years after... I had a friend (guy) who would…

> usually rich girls, would fawn over how "deep" he must be, his feeling the need to fly off to Tokyo, etc.. Someone else in that building also installed a stripper pole in his room, and not surprisingly a lot of girls who were attracted to his levels of "richness" and "lifestyle" actually went over to indulge him.

It's pretty well known that a lot of girls at universities are there not only for academic purposes, but also to lock down a 'nice' future husband. Biology is what it is..

Edit: be PC and downvote all you want, but its a pretty obvious truth for anyone that did actually attend university.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#93
post #78

I can relate. I did not go to an Ivy League (though, maybe I should have at least applied). I grew up poor and outside of town. No school activities, ever. I could barely get rides to AP exams and SATs. I had a kid at 15. I would steal food from the cafeteria and sell it cheaper to other students so I could afford to eat that night. I believed my only way out of poverty was a college degree. I worked my ass off over…

Thanks for sharing your story. To get some more context, can I ask a few questions? 1) What part of the country was this in? 2) Population of town or metro area? 3) Your ethnicity and sex? 4) Are you religious?

Google and some solid estimating should get you most of that if you are interested.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#94
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think part of the issue is not just that you can't afford to "go to dinner and a movie"; some aspects of the Ivys' cultures are built upon wealth and being poor inherently sets you apart. Anecdote: at my wife's Ivy medical school, there are several events each semester in which students are encouraged to drop several thousand dollars in a single 4 hour event. One example is…

I suppose it is naive of me to expect 18 year olds to have the maturity to understand the differences between people. I'm just hopeful that the poor kids would understand that the merit of their hard work has at least placed them on equal footing with the rich kids when it comes to educational opportunity and resume credentials. I hope that there is a mentor on campus who can show them that this is something to be pr…

> ...on equal footing with the rich kids when it comes to educational opportunity and resume credentials.

Except minus all that awesome networking and shoulder-rubbing. Which is, arguably, the actual value proposition of an ivy league vs a state school.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long term returns on the S&P 500 have averaged ~7% real returns including dividends. In personal finance there's a "4% Rule" which is supposed to be your target annual withdrawal if you're living off the money as a retiree. The 3% spread allows for market crashes, long periods of stagnancy in returns and a small increase in living standards as you age, however, if you're young I do agree a smaller 2-3% withdrawal lev…

You're not putting 100% of your portfolio in equities if you're living off its cash flow [1]. ZIRP means your fixed income can flow is weak. Things to consider when allocating as a retiree. [1] imo it's okay to do this while you're in the workforce since you're salary effectively acts as your fixed income portion of the portfolio.

My prior comment may not have been 100% correct. I believe the specific research that lead to the so called 4% rule did include a mix of stocks and bonds. As you point out, you would tend to roll back your risk tolerance as you reach retirement. Here's more on it for anyone interested:

http://blog.cordantwealth.com/how-much-can-i-spend-in-retire...?

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#96
post #59
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a poor grad student at an ivy, and I have to say that I find just under 30k a year far more than enough for myself. The whole starving grad student just doesn't hold up in rich private institutes. I live in a cheap house with four others, but my peers have apartments in some of the nicest buildings around. I cook my own food most of the time, but many grad students eat out twice a day, even if only at a food truc…

I thought the stipends were more like $12k/yr and it was not allowed to seek outside work (though everyone did and had to, to get by).

I worked for a physics professor at an ivy league school, not as a grad student, but as a software engineer on his team. I was working on a project with a database that contained all the personnel information -- everyone was getting between $30 and $35k.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#97
post #80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My offers for stem PhD programs at ivy-type private research institutions were about 30k, one was more like 35k. At university of California schools, the stipend was more like 19k (and a higher cost of living). My current stipend is the standard here and not due to unusual scholarships or grant money. We're supposed to ask permission for outside work, but the department will actively help you find people to tutor.

Ah. My sister was in the humanities at an Ivy, so that could be the difference.

Yeah :(

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#98
post #80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My offers for stem PhD programs at ivy-type private research institutions were about 30k, one was more like 35k. At university of California schools, the stipend was more like 19k (and a higher cost of living). My current stipend is the standard here and not due to unusual scholarships or grant money. We're supposed to ask permission for outside work, but the department will actively help you find people to tutor.

Ah. My sister was in the humanities at an Ivy, so that could be the difference.

Humanities grad students have a _much_ worse deal than STEM ones, typically.

From what I've seen, for STEM, the assumption is that your tuition is covered, you get a stipend that you can actually live on, your medical insurance is covered. For humanities, the working assumption is that none of that is true, and if some of it happens to be true, you're in luck.

Oh, and the humanities degrees often take longer too.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#99

I can relate. I did not go to an Ivy League (though, maybe I should have at least applied). I grew up poor and outside of town. No school activities, ever. I could barely get rides to AP exams and SATs. I had a kid at 15. I would steal food from the cafeteria and sell it cheaper to other students so I could afford to eat that night. I believed my only way out of poverty was a college degree. I worked my ass off over…

> I did miss out on something that I wish I would have been told more explicitly: university is not just about an education, it is about networking. I got zero networking done. I got the degree and got out. Because of my lack of networking, I believe my career was slower to build. Strange, when did you go to college? When I first arrived in college in 2012 the commonly held knowledge among students was that "while th…

I started college in 2010 and I didn't understand this. (Middle class school district in the US). I expected to get all of that from my actual jobs, and in the end I did.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? (2015)

#100

I can relate. I did not go to an Ivy League (though, maybe I should have at least applied). I grew up poor and outside of town. No school activities, ever. I could barely get rides to AP exams and SATs. I had a kid at 15. I would steal food from the cafeteria and sell it cheaper to other students so I could afford to eat that night. I believed my only way out of poverty was a college degree. I worked my ass off over…

I wasn't as hard up as you, but I definitely relate to being on the lower end of the economic scale as well as having parents who were not able to give me any guidance at all WRT a path through college. I think it's hard to understand what "networking" even is if you don't have someone who you can emulate.
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