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Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

robinwieruch.de

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Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#11

Post by EliRivers »

amelius wrote: post #6

> Imagine you start to write about a topic. Start to think small. “Decide on the corner of the subject you want to bite off.” Cover that corner well, be satisfied by that and stop. Make it a complete experience for your reader. Don’t nibble on another corner of the subject and leave the reader with an incomplete reading experience. Huh? Shouldn't you provide a birds-eye view of the topic first? Answer questions such…

"make it clear what issue you are going to discuss next"

Please don't. Just get on with it. I routinely skip over anything that does this. Sometimes I have to flip through an entire opening chapter or introduction of a book to get past it.

At least I can skip over it in the written word. When someone is delivering a presentation in the format of "tell them what you're going to tell them, then tell them, then tell them what you told them", it's excruciating.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#12

Post by Deimorz »

x1798DE wrote: post #3

I was so disappointed with this book. Some of the platitudes Zinsser goes into are reasonable, like try to be uncluttered, direct and to the point, but all the worked examples seem to just be arbitrarily chosen to his taste. For example, in the chapter on "clutter", Zinsser picks out this passage from Walden as his exemplar of "uncluttered English": "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front…

I'm in the middle of reading On Writing Well right now, and have had exactly the same complaint about the examples. There have been multiple examples that I expected him to be using as a demonstration of what not to do, but that he then went on to praise.

I'm still enjoying the book overall and think it has a lot of useful advice, but it's confusing to have so many examples that seem to directly contradict the principles it advocates.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#13

Post by 551199 »

cpchen wrote: post #4
x1798DE wrote: post #3

I was so disappointed with this book. Some of the platitudes Zinsser goes into are reasonable, like try to be uncluttered, direct and to the point, but all the worked examples seem to just be arbitrarily chosen to his taste. For example, in the chapter on "clutter", Zinsser picks out this passage from Walden as his exemplar of "uncluttered English": "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front…

I enjoyed (the first 2/3 of) Steven Pinker's The Sense of Style. It includes examples of where prescriptivism fails and succeeds.

Surprising to see Pinker has written a book about writing. The way he writes makes even interesting topics feel deadly boring.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#14

Post by taeric »

EliRivers wrote: post #11
amelius wrote: post #6

> Imagine you start to write about a topic. Start to think small. “Decide on the corner of the subject you want to bite off.” Cover that corner well, be satisfied by that and stop. Make it a complete experience for your reader. Don’t nibble on another corner of the subject and leave the reader with an incomplete reading experience. Huh? Shouldn't you provide a birds-eye view of the topic first? Answer questions such…

"make it clear what issue you are going to discuss next" Please don't. Just get on with it. I routinely skip over anything that does this. Sometimes I have to flip through an entire opening chapter or introduction of a book to get past it. At least I can skip over it in the written word. When someone is delivering a presentation in the format of "tell them what you're going to tell them, then tell them, then tell the…

I'm torn. I agree that the three step process you gave is bad. Currently listening to "Search Inside Yourself" and was incredibly annoyed that the first 40ish minutes have so far been about how awesome this practice is and why I should care. To the point that I'm honestly not sure I'll finish the book now. I feel like I'm just being sold something.

That said, often a brief "why" at the beginning would be nice. So, don't just give me a forward of what you'll be telling me. Definitely don't hype it. But, give me some expectation for what I'm listening/reading for.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#15

Post by ktRolster »

For the lazy, here are my tips:

1) Use what you learned in high school: write in paragraphs with a topic sentence and supporting sentences.

2) After you write a sentence, read it out loud (or pronounce it in your mind) to make sure it flows easily.

4) When people reply to your comments on Hacker News (or Slashdot), try to figure out if they understood what you wrote. If they didn't, next time try to think of a way to be more clear. Over time, you will improve: probably quickly.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#16

Post by x1798DE »

551199 wrote: post #13
cpchen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed (the first 2/3 of) Steven Pinker's The Sense of Style. It includes examples of where prescriptivism fails and succeeds.

Surprising to see Pinker has written a book about writing. The way he writes makes even interesting topics feel deadly boring.

> The way he writes makes even interesting topics feel deadly boring.

This sounds like a great endorsement to me. Another complaint I had about Zinsser's book was that he was giving you advice on how to "spice up" your writing, but IIRC (it's been some years), it was all about standard journalistic tricks to construct a narrative, have distinct characters and personalize the story. Obviously that sort of thing is more engaging to read, but I feel like it often distorts the "take-away" message of most scientific and technical writing, given that most science is incremental improvements on existing technology carried out by international collaborations and competitions, not major breakthroughs carried out by lone supermen.

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#17

Post by x1798DE »

jasode wrote: post #8
x1798DE wrote: post #3

I was so disappointed with this book. Some of the platitudes Zinsser goes into are reasonable, like try to be uncluttered, direct and to the point, but all the worked examples seem to just be arbitrarily chosen to his taste. For example, in the chapter on "clutter", Zinsser picks out this passage from Walden as his exemplar of "uncluttered English": "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front…

>, with a non-standard use of "front" as a verb Fyi... it was an old style of speaking relevant to Thoreau's time. "Front" was another way of saying "confront". It's wasn't an example of "verbing" a noun in a nonstandard way.[1] [1] http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/01/25

Yeah, I assumed it was something like that, just that if I were writing a book on writing clear non-fiction, I wouldn't use archaic language in my example sentences.

"Avoid unnecessary adverbs - for example, rather than saying 'Forsooth, wherefore didst thou traverse mine bed-chamber?", instead write 'Wherefore didst thou traverse mine bed-chamber?'"

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#18

Post by open-source-ux »

The Plain English campaign in the UK has some free guides on writing clear and easy-to-read English. Well worth a read whether you are a native speaker or not.

"So what is plain English? It is a message, written with the reader in mind and with the right tone of voice, that is clear and concise.":

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/free-guides.html

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#19

Post by munificent »

ktRolster wrote: post #15

For the lazy, here are my tips: 1) Use what you learned in high school: write in paragraphs with a topic sentence and supporting sentences. 2) After you write a sentence, read it out loud (or pronounce it in your mind) to make sure it flows easily. 4) When people reply to your comments on Hacker News (or Slashdot), try to figure out if they understood what you wrote. If they didn't, next time try to think of a way to…

> read it out loud (or pronounce it in your mind)

If you pronounce it in your mind, you'll pronounce what you thought you wrote, not what you actually wrote. Your memory of your writing will distract from your vision.

The simplest, best, most actionable advice I know to improve writing is: "Edit". The second is "Read it out loud".

Re: Lessons Learned from “On Writing Well”

#20

Post by ktRolster »

munificent wrote: post #19
ktRolster wrote: post #15

For the lazy, here are my tips: 1) Use what you learned in high school: write in paragraphs with a topic sentence and supporting sentences. 2) After you write a sentence, read it out loud (or pronounce it in your mind) to make sure it flows easily. 4) When people reply to your comments on Hacker News (or Slashdot), try to figure out if they understood what you wrote. If they didn't, next time try to think of a way to…

> read it out loud (or pronounce it in your mind) If you pronounce it in your mind, you'll pronounce what you thought you wrote, not what you actually wrote. Your memory of your writing will distract from your vision. The simplest, best, most actionable advice I know to improve writing is: "Edit". The second is "Read it out loud".

If you pronounce it in your mind, you'll pronounce what you thought you wrote, not what you actually wrote

With a little practice, that won't be a problem. If you find it is still a problem, then the solution you gave of reading it out loud is fine, too.

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